In this episode, we chat with Arel Moodie who hosts The Art Of Likability podcast. Arel and I chat about using the power of likability to dramatically grow your business in unique ways that most of your competitors aren’t using. We even talk about how he leveraged his own “X” factor to get asked to write and speak for huge companies, including the White House itself!
If you’d prefer watching the video you can watch it here:
Listen To The Podcast
Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys. This is Jeremy here with the sales funnel mastery, and this is our fist video interview. So I am kind of excited about it and Arel kind of gets to be a part of that.
So the guy you are looking at here, his name is Arel Moodie and he is a best-selling author and host of the top career podcast on iTunes which is The Art Of Likability. I highly recommend it, go check it out, you know, you are probably on your phone now, so go in there and you know, go download it now.
He is also the founder of the College Success Program and True Speaking Success and he has been — here comes all the good stuff, right. He has been a contributor to Forbes and Huffington Post on the topic of likability which is what we are going to talk about today and how to kind of use likability in marketing and he has given TED talks on Likability. He was named to INC Magazine 30 under 30 list. Featured in USA Today, New York Times, PBS, Business Week, Black Enterprise, essence in Young Money magazine. There is still more.
As a professional speaker, he spoken over 375,000 in 48 states and 5 countries and has actually been a guest speaker at the White House which is kind of awesome.
He has used Likability to go from kid on welfare in the projects of Brooklyn to running multiple 6 and 7 figure businesses and it is actually kind of funny. I actually loved the show Ellen of video of him accidentally hitting his son on the head with a basketball went viral and ended up on the show Ellen, Ellen deGeneres, if you guys are not familiar with that.
So welcome, so that is quite a list and it is not even — I was reading your bio before this and it is not even all of it. It is just like the condensed version.
Arel Moodie: Thanks a lot Jeremy, I appreciate you having me on the show and I am really to talk about the subject of Likability and marketing specifically because I think the 2 were so married together that when you can really combined them so they are not like fighting over alimony and they are actually a cohesive couple. It is game changing. So I appreciate what you doing with your podcast and honored to be the first video –.
Jeremy Reeves: We are excited. We are just making sure that the video actually work because it is the first time I was doing it and I am like let me do a test run first you know.
But yeah, so I mean you know, I gave your into but you know, tell everybody, go a little bit deeper you know. Who are you? Who do you help? What do you do in life?
Arel Moodie: Yeah, so you know, I pretty much got introduced to entrepreneurship as a concept when I was in college. I had a really awesome professor and when I was in college, I started my first internet business which was helping college students find (inaudible 2:37.3) and kind of by doing that business it was great because I realized how much of the world they did not know you know, I was a kid from a project I was you know from welfare in Brooklyn like I had no connections, no nothing, so I am literally starting from this point of I want to change my life and improve it but I do not have anyone.
And what was interesting is as I was building that business and then eventually went into another business called Extreme Entrepreneurship Tour which we later changed to Empact for Entrepreneurial Empact. We basically went to students across the country for colleges and we told them like being an entrepreneur is awesome like you know, we wanted occupational therapy make entrepreneurship a viable career path.
So people would say like, I want to be a doctor or lawyer. We wanted entrepreneur to be that.
So now we feel like it is actually is that which is awesome, but when we started, it was kind of like, you an entrepreneur you could not get higher you know, but what was interesting of doing that real estate business and then doing the entrepreneurial education business was I was building the skill that I did not even consciously know I was building which was this idea of Likability because we had to get people who did not know what at all to want and trust us, to want to give us a shot, to want to work with us and I started reading tons of books on you know, an (inaudible 3:50.1) social persuasion but a lot of it honestly came from just being in the field like how do you get you know, the White House to answer your call? How do you get you know, these people who literally you do not have connections but then there are these ways of doing it and the thing that I realized above everything is that relationships with people. Like anything you want in the world is literally one phone call away from someone.
So if you have the right relationship, you can actually change your life in. That is why I kind of came about like the Art of Likability. I wanted to you know, take all these things that would not necessarily fit into my speaking engagements that I do.
I do a lot with The College Success Program that is more for colleges and high school students, and through speaking success is teaching people how to become a professional speaker, but the Art of Likability was like I did not really fit into any of those categories.
And that is why I decided to come up with a podcast and start writing about it and blogging, just creating content around it because I felt it was so game changing and it is kind of taking off from there very organically become one of the top itunes, podcast and a lot of you know, speaking engagements have come because of it, but it is really just helping people build relationships and connection with people so they can do a great work.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, that is awesome.
So I have a question, but I have to kind of bring it back to you know, one of the things that you said, because I get a lot of people and they are like, especially a lot of service you know, service providers or people that have kind of digital products and they are trying to build this relationships you know, and I think —
So how did you get on the radar of the White House you know, because a lot of people are like, oh well, you know, I am having a hard time getting in front of like B players and like, there is like you know, C players, B players, A players and like the White House.
So how did you end up doing that?
Arel Moodie: You know, it is so funny you know, the best way I can describe it is whatever you are doing, you have to be aware that the work you are doing today may not pay off until 3, 4, or 5 years from now you know, people who put in blog post out where they are putting out you know content whether it is videos or audios and they are like I am not getting any traction, is it worth it. If you are passion about it keep doing it.
The reason why I was became kind of a perfect storm, we were doing entrepreneurship education since 2007, 2009 is when it really kind of kick off and in 2011, Obama created the Jobs Act and what that was about is creating more jobs and stimulating the economy. It was the big push in the White House, we need to get young people excited about creating jobs and entrepreneurship.
So when they started googling and finding out about like who were the players in this young entrepreneurship space. Our business was one of the biggest only players you know at that time there are other people who you know since done it and doing it very well, but we were the people who kind of — were able to be found because what we were doing we have a lot of content and information and just (inaudible 6:36.1) and get all the work we were doing without there.
So we originally got on their radar because of their initiative and they were looking for the right person.
Then my business partner at that time, Michael Simmons and I we went in and we met with some folks from Department of State and it was just an introduction like to see what is possible and then by building that relation with Department of State it eventually led up to, we need to get you in touch with you know, this White House initiative which was like, I mean, incredible.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, that is something — something to write home to mom about. That is awesome.
So kind of going with that, you know, how do you use — because this is one of those things — it can either be used for good or bad you know what I mean. So you know, it is — basically, anything with marketing you know what I mean.
But how do you use like the skills that you have to build relationships in a very you know, kind of genuine way versus like, oh, I am going to reach out to this person because I want X you know.
Arel Moodie: My mentor told me something which has always stayed with me. He said the only difference between persuasion and manipulation is intent.
Jeremy Reeves: Sounds true.
Arel Moodie: Like I can use manipulation to get a girl to want to like you know, sleep with me for example or you can use that exact same skills to get the girl to want to fall in love with me because I want her to marry me and have my kids you know, right.
Like it is the same process, it really is your intent. So when you are kind of looking at it, it is something I kind of you know, I deal with the last. I am like you know, you have to realize that your heart has to be good because I say likability and relationship building is like a knife you know.
A knife is not inherently good or bad, but the knife in the hands of killer is really bad and a scalpel in the hands of the surgeon is really good, but they cut someone open.
So I would say that you have to self-regulate yourself. You have to say, you know what is my intentions, but even above that what I found is that no matter how much you are likable or persuasive or whatever it is, if your intent becomes known that you are just trying to get something from someone or (inaudible 8:48.6) transactional you know they say, the sun and the truth will always come up you know.
So eventually you will get found out and it will do more harm than good. It may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow, but you know, you look at people like you know, Bill Cosby you know, incredible human being for so long and then all this dirt he has been doing for his whole life comes out. His whole literally, his entire legacy destroyed because he you know, used his power and his influence for you know, bad reasons.
So I would just tell people there really is no difference besides your intent. You have to be the first who regulates what type of human being you try to be in this world.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I even have a story that I was — because I have been doing a lot of relationship building this year and the one guy, I met him at San Diego and then I emailed him and I am like, Hey, you know, we should hop on the phone, blah, blah, blah and he originally thought that I was doing it to like, oh you know, what can you get for me you know, like what clients can you refer to me that kind of thing, and I am like no dude, I just want to like hop in the phone and you know, just kind of catch up you know, we live across the country, I just want to you know, have a conversation and we did. And then he ended up inviting me to his yacht party in New York city where I actually met you know, new clients.
Arel Moodie: It is so perfect.
Jeremy Reeves: It was funny though, like it really hit me because when we were on the phone. He is like, oh, sorry I was a little bit you know, standoff, and he is like, I have so many people that do it just to get something out of me. He is like I love the fact that you did it in a genuine way and just were vulnerable, just you know, kind of free yourself out there.
Basically he responded not really in a negative way, but in kind of like a brush off kind of way and I was like, dude, what the hell kind of respond was that?
Whereas, I think, if I was going after him in a transactional way you know, I would just be like oh well, you know, whatever like I would not even said that you know, versus — I said that because of the intent that I have which was basically just to get the friendship going and you know, just to kind of catch with him you know.
Arel Moodie: (inaudible 10:54.4) I have a really good friend who is a high-powered executive out of a very, very large you know, organization and you know people are constantly (inaudible 11:01.3) for his time and you know, I was lucky to speak on the same stage with him and we just started talking and we built a pretty good friendship.
One time he called me and I was in the middle of kind of having one of those things were people would just reaching out to me for (inaudible 11:12.9) and I was like, I am waiting for like why is he calling me? Does he need something? And then I was like, you know, I messaged him, I said, you know — I really appreciate you just reaching out to me just to connect with me.
He is like man, I know — he calls it donor fatigue and I thought it was such a great way because people are kind of always to get you to give something to them that the donor becomes fatigue with it. Where someone if they genuinely want to connect with the person, there is no hidden agenda, no ask, the thing that is hilarious about it is exactly what you said, is what will always happen. The clients, the success, it is a byproduct of a genuine intent, but as long as your intent has a hidden agenda, it will be sniffed out you know, people are going to smell smoke and you are going to be gone.
So, it is so important when you look at the concept of relationship building to realize this really is a long term strategy and you may build relationship with 10 people and 9 of them nothing happens, but 1 person could be the reason why you go to White House and (inaudible 12:09.8) right?
Jeremy Reeves: So what would you say you know, everybody listening to this. We have our own personalities. We have our own kind of ways of communicating with other people, reaching out or kind of like the first time we reached out to them or you know, to existing relationships. Let us get into more of like, some of like the you know, the more of like tactical ways to actually be more likable you know what I mean? And use it in our marketing you know what I mean? And I guess you can kind of take the direction of it, but you know, whether it is for something like writing emails like how do you be more likable, more person personable in something like you know, kind of cold media like that emails or whatever or if it is for creating connections more of like a personal you know one-on-one type of thing.
Arel Moodie: Yeah. You know, the funny thing is, a lot of people tend to when they are either getting started and you know whether it is email marketing or whatever it is, building your persona (inaudible 13:10.9) they get so caught up and you know, saying the right thing and doing the right way that they actually run away from what makes them who they are as a genuine intent.
And what I tend to find is that when people actually come to (inaudible 13:24.0) with their own particular story that they become really good. Like if you look at people who are doing it well like the (inaudible 13:29.1) their personality is completely infused into their language. They are not writing what they people want to hear. They either crystallizing or they are like polarizing. I heard this straight (inaudible 13:41.6)
You know they either say like if you do not like the way I am saying it like that is great, like I am going to polarize you and you are not going to like me or you are going to really resonate me, you are going to crystallize me.
So what I would encourage people to do is look at what makes you uniquely you and the way that you find that is simply by saying, why did I want to get into this internet marketing in the first place. Like, what was it for me that was my personal story that made me say, this career, this you know, journey is what I want to take were you are going through divorce, were you going through a bad job you know, is it that you are stump with whatever it is. What was it that made you actually say, this is the thing that I want to do and then use that as your personal story. Infuse that concept and that languaging in what you do.
So for me, the way that played out as a specific example is I grew up in the projects in welfare in Brooklyn, New York, right.
I mentioned that almost every single time I do speaking engagement, in interview because that is part of my personal story like I want to be known that this where I started from. This is what I came from, but I wanted to make a difference.
And for so long I ran away from it because I was kind of ashamed of it. I did not want people to know. I did not want them to like, categorize me, but when I ran towards it, it actually became like, wow, I get to become in theory, the American dream, right.
So that is uniquely mine. Like there are other people have a big — they are not uniquely me.
So instead of running away from it and hiding it, I brought it to the forefront and there were a lot of things that made people feel uncomfortable, they are nervous or like, I do not want people to think I am weak, but those are actually the items and things that will make you more real and more connected you know.
If you are dealing with depression and you know, started doing internet marketing to like get yourself out of it like talk about that and infuse that in the messaging you send to people.
It is actually not going to make you look like a loser or look like someone who does not know what they are talking about is going to make the people who crystallize though. This person is like my girl, my God. And a polarize people they probably not going to work with you anyway so you want to get rid of them.
So really going to what makes you you and discover that by asking yourself what made me want to go into this and use that as the way it kind of infuse it in everything you say and everything you do.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I love that and I cannot tell you just from you know, having you know, email subscribers, they go and email, they listened to podcast.
My kind of story like, my thing that I watch onto is like the family man you know, that is my persona. So I am always talking about you know, my wife and my kids and you know, on my about me page, like my whole story of like why I get into this and it was because of a promise that I made to my wife you know, she essentially — you know, I be able to you know, support her like she is always wanted to be you know, stay at home mom when she is. I can actually hear them walking around upstairs right now.
But you know, so that is kind of my story and I cannot tell you how many people have emailed me and said like, oh my God, they resonate with me so much, I am in the same way or you know, whatever like that is my dream too if they are not there yet you know. So that is all true you know and just stories are so powerful you know.
Arel Moodie: And I love what you are saying because when I teach people how to become professional speakers, I teach them what I called, your X-factor right.
So what happened is like, because really, if you look at it, all internet marketing, it is really hard to differentiate yourself on content alone, right. I can get content from a thousand sources, but why I am going to want get my content from you and if I am someone who values family and if I am someone who values you know someone who has ethics and morals and then I come to you and I see you doing all of the internet marketing stuff really well which you are and you are making me realized that I do not have to be scummy sleazy person that (inaudible 17:30.2) value like you know, really important things. I am going to feel more comfortable and connect with you and your information may not be that (inaudible 17:40.4) different than someone else or in maybe, but I would not even know how to get there unless I can first get pass that initial barrier do I look like this guy.
And I like you because of your storey and I think the more we grab hold of it, the more it actually becomes what makes people say I want my info. I want — you want to be a part of this person’s tribe.
Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Yeah, you know, there is, you know, an old marketing (inaudible 18:03.30) you know, people buy from other people they know they can trust you know what I mean and they have to you know, the like is the second one in there and trust, which comes from liking it you know what I mean, because usually, you know, you trust people that you like and you do not trust people that you do not like you know what I mean. Think of the, you know, the whole political thing going on.
Arel Moodie: We will not go into that.
Jeremy Reeves: (inaudible 18:22.2)
Arel Moodie: The whole political — I mean you either hate Trump. You hate Hillary. You do not like them. You love them. You know, it is a very few people kind of straddling the fence with these folks, especially —
Jeremy Reeves: Trump.
Arel Moodie: Yeah, I mean especially. I mean, I do not think I have ever seen such political melee.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know. It is pretty rough.
Arel Moodie: But I think that genuinely speaking, and to get clear on the idea of likability you know, likability is not being fake, it is not a popularity contest like for you. You are not faking that you have a family. You are not faking that you know. It is not like you are making it up like it genuinely is who you are which you decided to do a simply leverage it as a tool to help people realize like you want to change lives. You want to make people do things for the better. You do all these great research and testing to make sure you have a good content. Now you layer in the family side to it and it kind of puts a moat around you that when you look at someone like you know, a single young guy for example. They just do not have your X-factor.
That X-factor is what is going to make people say, I want to keep coming back then the content being good you know is what keeps them you know, stay.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, definitely. I love that.
So let us you know, think about when you are first reaching out to people you know, because like once you get people you know, what we have been talking about was like people kind of come in to your world and then they find out about you and all that kind of thing, but you know, you have been able to really leverage a lot of different things.
So, and I am sure there was a lot of like kind of let us just called it cold outreach you know to that. So how do you use some of the principles that we have been talking about to someone who has never even heard of you before?
Arel Moodie: Yep, you know, the biggest thing is kind of — I do not have official term for it, but I am going to make it up as I say it, I called it kind of the ladder technique if you will.
I wish I could say you know, in the beginning of my career, I went here. I was in Huffington post and Forbes and like. It was just (inaudible 20:24.4) like I wish I could say I went from an unknown guy to you know, getting these type of relationship and deals, but what will you do is you use a really good strategy of leveraging up.
So here is a great example of how it works.
Let us say you live in Los Lunas, New Mexico — I am making this up right, it is a real place, but it is a small town, right.
It is unbelievably easy to get into the local media in Los Lunas, New Mexico. There is going to be local newspapers. There is going to be local t.v. stations, right. So it can be like you know, let us say someone is teaching people about — give me a random subject that (inaudible 21:04.0) maybe somebody in your tribe is like teaching people how to do.
Jeremy Reeves: Automated webinars. I have a product coming up for next week.
Arel Moodie: Alright. You contact the extremely hyper local news station magazine, t.v. station in your local area, right. You know, webinars are the key to the marketing future. I love to write an article, but the interview about on why webinars are the key to business in success in 2016 and beyond, right.
Like when people only realize about media is they need your content before media and this is really big right. Before media was like a printed newspaper. It was a limited amount of real statement and that was it, right.
Now, it is online where the more media you have, the better.
So Forbes is posting maybe 60,000 article a day on their online site, right. So they are constantly needing new info. These local places are (inaudible 22:03.4) maybe it starts as a blog, maybe it starts as whatever, right.
So we talked to these local folks, you let them know about the benefit of how you can help their readers right. We talked about like let me tell you about my launch, right, it is not bad. How to use webinars to grow your business.
You get featured in that local media, right. Then what you do is you leverage that local media into the next immediate spot.
So now I am in the local Los Lunas business journal. So I contact ABC 7 and say, Hey, I just did an article with Los Lunas business journal on why webinar is the marketing of the future. I love to come on to your show and talk about this in person. So it is a different medium, but I am using the original thing I got as my kind of ladder up to next one.
And then when I started doing is using you know, good branding. So for example, I was featured on small town in Benton, New York. That is where I went to college and we were featured on the Fox News at Benton, New York, right.
So instead of saying I was on whatever it is WWCCCBJ of Benton, New York. I was like, I was featured on the Fox News because it is true, it is an affiliate.
So now I am leveraging a bigger brand that is connected with that affiliate and I am using that branding to leverage in to the next one and into the next one.
So the key is to actually not start so so high, but to start with a very hyper local and even if you are in like New York city for example our major player your county or your neighborhood probably has some type of media outlet that covers just the area then you reach out there first and you leverage up from there and then eventually you are going to get yourself an opportunities that like blow your mind and then you can kind of almost start mentioning those smaller local ones and (inaudible 23:43.5) bigger ones and then once you get into a bigger one, it is a lot easy to get into you know, other big names.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that. And it is actually — it is actually funny because you can use that you know, what do you called it, the ladder?
Arel Moodie: Ladder. We just call it that, that could be something else right whatever.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, whatever. The ladder strategy.
You can use that in so many different ways so like if you have a funnel that is converting really well and you are looking for affiliates you do the same thing you know, go out with people that are kind of C players. Get a couple of them to promote. Then you go to B players and say, hey, you know, these players, you know, these people already promoted, they are getting whatever you know EPC you know, that kind of thing and then you get a couple successes with the B players and you go to A player you know.
Arel Moodie: Right, and what is cool too is that if you really look at angles right, so for example, Instagram shout-outs, I find that for social media to be a great way to get followers for example you know, I am doing fitness and I say, Hey, I love fitness check out my awesome friends who has got fitness, right.
So let us say you only got like 100 followers right, and someone else has you know, 200 followers and you say, hey I want to shout you out and you get them you know, 15 new followers right. I cannot do math, right, but you can say we increased their followers by 20% or 15%.
Now mind you, you are only going from like easier numbers, 100 to 120, but to say you increased their followers by 20% is completely true. So when you reached out to a bigger player and you say, hey, I have been able to use this (inaudible 25:09.7) by 20%.
Jeremy Reeves: I see where you are going.
Arel Moodie: Then (inaudible 25:12.4) oh my God, this is pretty cool. Let me give it a shot. Then he get that bigger player and he say, we got this bigger play that — and then it just you just ladder up.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and then in the meantime you are getting them to shout-out to you, so then you are increasing your followers so then you know, to kind of just keeps going at it.
Alright, cool. So that helps. I mean I think we covered both you know, both kind of cold and you know warm.
How do you use this for things like social media you know. So like we are kind of — I mean you know, social medial is kind of part of your funnel depending on how you are using, but you know, but have you used it to you know, to kind of grow that aspect of your business
Arel Moodie: Yeah, you know, I am very similar into what you are saying. My family is very important to me (inaudible 25:58.8) my baby cry a couple of months ago. I have a beautiful wife that stays at home as well which you know, we are very honored and lucky to be able to do. I have 2 sons. They are very big part of my life.
So when I am hosting, I am posting about my family on social media as much as I am talking about the business things that I am doing and a lot of times you know, it is like if you post too much you know, buy from me, buy from me, buy from me, buy from me you become a spammer and people do not want to talk to you.
If you never say buy for me, the people forget that you are even selling anything, right, but if you have this great combination of let me let you win and not let me just let you win on I am on a yacht in (inaudible 26:37.9) welcome to my personal life, right.
A lot of people do just that but you know, posting about — let me say this really funny thing about my son, crying at the mall in front of everyone and then here is the marketing lesson that I learned from it then you know, it is not important what other people think, it is important what is the greatest goal is.
Like for me, if my kids are having a temper tantrum, I am not going to give him a lollipop just so that people stop looking at me and take him away, you know, a lot of (inaudible 27:03.8).
Jeremy Reeves: A lot of people of would.
Arel Moodie: A lot of people of would. I do not want to look bad. Give him a lollipop, and I am like, No, like I do not want you to think that if you cry you get your way and I do not want you to think if I say, you have 1 lollipop you are going to get 2. It gets a larger lesson.
So you can talk about this like, here is my son crying and all these people looking at me, but here is a larger lesson. So as long as you start sharing more about your personal line but then kind of doing a looping back into how it furthers your business, you connect to people to who you are as a person which makes them keep believing you, trusting you knowing your life can give, but then it also furthers your business goals.
So I highly encouraged people to look at their life and say, hey, are you really into archery. Are you really into knitting you know, whatever is the thing that you are into and bring that into your actual messaging so it is not just you know, black and white you know, AB test and (inaudible 27:55.7) because the stories are what we care about like if you read a textbook, you are going to fall asleep, but if you read a you know, John Grisham novel, you are alive throughout the whole thing.
So the key is to build those stories of your personal life into it and what is cool is you start actually looking around. Actually, when bad things happening to me in my personal life, I am like awesome, this is going to be a great story. Nothing really is as bad as it once was because it all has a leverage.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, that is awesome.
So one final question is a lot of people are probably listening to this and you know, it is hard I do not know if you have ever tried to write a sales letter, selling your own thing, right.
It is harder or done really trying to sell yourself like it is harder trying to sell yourself than somebody else. So a lot of people listening to this are probably thinking, oh there is nothing special about me, right.
Everybody thinks there is nothing special about them and then you talk to them and they are like, what is wrong. You are like an amazing person you know.
But like we all have this kind of like cloud that keeps us from seeing how amazing we really are, right.
So how do you help people or what are some tips you can give people to like find you know their X-factor? We just call it.
Arel Moodie: I was talking to one of my coaching clients yesterday literally about this exact same thing. He is a guy who want to be a speaker and I was like you know, why do you want to be — you know because — I gave him every title thing to do and he still was not doing it and I am like, dude I am giving you the freakin — do it, right.
But it was a mental block because he was like, well, I do not really see how I stand out. So I finally started asking him about himself and he told me about you know, how he (inaudible 29:38.4) going through the suicidal things and his girl left him and now he has wife and he is so happy and I was like, do you share this story and (inaudible 29:45.3) like no, I do not share it.
And I am like, what are you thinking, right. So the very the first thing I would say is you know, this is why mentorship and coaching is really so important. It is not necessarily because me as a coach, the only (inaudible 30:01.3) work with me is because I know things you do not know. That could be part of it but the other part is we are sometimes so close to the trees we cannot see the forest.
We need to talk and not just talk to like your best friend or your wife or your husband who do not know this world, but someone who is in the world who can go, oh my God, this is important.
So I am a big fan of coaching. I do coaching. I go to coaching, it is very important.
The second thing to consider is — I heard this from, (inaudible 30:27.6) those are really good, right. He said, imagine you are your own client. So step out of your body and imagine — it is not I am writing about me, right. It is I am writing about Arel Moodie client. What has Arel Moodie my (inaudible 30:43.9) so you are almost 3rd person yourself.
So instead of looking at it, what have I done, you would say, alright, I have been hired by Jeremy Reeves and I have to do this. What am I going to write about for Jeremy Reeves and you look at them almost as a separate person that you have to write for and you become a little bit more objective about it. So one, get outside perspectives from people who know what they are doing who can literally cut through a lot of your (inaudible 31:06.4) because so many people like you said, are so incredible and they are like, oh I have not really done anything and then it is like what world are you living in you know.
And then the second thing is the kind of almost like transcendentally step out of your body and hire yourself to write the copy for you and you will actually find it is a little bit more objective as long as you stay away from, I am talking myself it is weird, no, I have been hired by Arel Moodie and I have to make sure Arel Moodie is the happiest client I have ever had. How do I blow up what he has done and it is really helpful to do those few things.
Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love that. And I very much agree with the whole coaching thing. I have talked to people like my own coaching clients and they are like, oh I cannot figure this out. I cannot figure them, I am like do this you know, and then it is like, okay, done.
And the same thing with me you know, I hire coaches myself and I have had, I have had instances where I am sitting and looking at a problem, I am like, Oh my God, I cannot figure this out, and then you know, I say, hey you know, come look at this and they were like, well just do that, it is like, how did you not see that you know.
It happened so — I mean almost every single project that I have with clients has you know, that in there at some point where it is (inaudible 32:19.6) why don’t you just do this you know, it is like so simple and obvious but —
Arel Moodie: And that is worth everything honestly because — I mean I had situations where I like to crack my brain about you know, well how do I break into this market or how do I do this and I have one mentor who has been my mentor for 10 years now and literally 30 minutes with him shed so much like so for example, I have (inaudible 32:45.7) who teach people how to become professional speakers, how to get paid to do it right and I love it and I am having this conversation with him and my mentor goes, well, have you ever thought about teaching people also how to speak?
And I am like, well, I mean yeah, but not — it feels like, there are so many people that want to learn how to speak and it was such a simple idea, but I was so caught up and just teaching people the business out of it that I never thought about also teaching them kind of the art — the how to be a great speaker.
And so now, I am working on that product as well, but literally it was just one question and I just never — it just was not on the radar you know.
Jeremy Reeves: There is — have you ever read a book, Obvious Adams?
Arel Moodie: No.
Jeremy Reeves: You never read that?
I would highly recommend even giving it to your coach and clients and I know everybody listening to this, there is a really good book, it is like 30 pages. It is just tiny little thing but yeah, look for I forgot where (inaudible 33:37.1) it was a dollar somewhere, but yeah, look for it, it is called Obvious Adams and it is about that, it is about like you walk around and like think of all inventions basically.
I just saw one the other day and it was for a tape measure and you know, a lot of times especially if you are doing like a bigger project, you have the tape measure and you have like 14 other tools here and it is like, you are like, you know, going like this and like — it is hard to get the measurement and all that. So they made it so that all you do is get a laser pointer and go like this and it tells you how you know, the distance and I am like, oh my God, that is so easy like how did no one ever think of that, but honestly, I mean most inventions are like, oh my God, how you know, there is one for umbrella you know, the way that it — I forgot the way that it close so like, because you know like the water sits on top and then when you close it the water comes flying down and it did like the other way you know what I mean, like it just close (inaudible 34:33.7) I am like, oh God, you know, but yeah, those are kinds of the — but nobody sees it you know, and that is an entire world not seeing it.
Arel Moodie: You know what, I will say this because I think it is so important to see — this has showed up in my life over and over and over again I do not know if this has showed up in your life too, but a lot of the things that actually change your business are not these huge really complex things, it is these little simple ideas.
You know in my professional speaking where I will never forget this. I mean it is so simple, it is stupid, right. Like in the very beginning of my career, I was charging like $500 for speaking engagement right, like really low right.
And I was speaking to someone who said well, what does the market typically charge?
And I was like, what do you mean? Like so for example, I want to buy a brand new Toyota Camry. There is a concept of what a brand new Toyota Camry cost, right.
I never thought about it, I was just like why do I feel comfortable charging people.
And then at that time, the market I was speaking was like, Oh, they are used to paying $2,500. So he was like, alright start charging $2,500 and I was like that is ridiculous. No, if that is what people want to pay, that is what you should do.
And so literally, I started the next conversation $2,500 and so I am like 5 times my speaking engagement and now you know we are doing $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 presentations but when I was doing $500 I could not have imagine like anything more than that because I was looking it from my own perspective, but the simplest thing of just charge of what people are used to paying for it, 5 times the business and then you know, whatever 100 thousand times of business now.
But it is so simple thing, I was not necessarily speaking any differently, I was not doing anything differently. I just made that one little tweak and has had a huge changes. So a lot of times when we are looking at our business we are always trying to overcomplicate it. We are trying to make it so much more difficult than it is, but sometimes these little simple changes could mean the greatest return on our business and our investments.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, that is, you know, even when you are you know, when I am split testing copy you know, it is always like the biggest leverage that you have is the big idea, the headline you know, like in the lead you know, the first page or two of copy you know and you can quadruple a sales letter with 1 new page of copy out of 20 you know what I mean and it really is are just the big you know, the big idea like there is one — the big idea, it was a financial newsletter and you know, the whole like idea of it was the end of America.
So it was about you know, America losing its currency reserve status or like the you know, it is the world currency or whatever and that was like the big idea and then they have all the facts and all that to support it and you know, that kind of thing, but that is you know, that is all it is just about you know, an idea you know, and you could be sitting there for a year and nothing comes and then just comes and it is over with you know, game over you won.
Arel Moodie: Yeah, yeah. So you know, I really encouraged everyone listening to this you know, with your business, a lot of times (inaudible 37:28.7) or overcomplicating it. You think it’s this — I think people think like to be a successful entrepreneur or internet marketer you got to be in this lab and there was like doodles all over the wall and there was like a beaker with like green liquid going over you with a smoke come in and that is only way in your split testing like should I use the letter A or the letter B and then in real life a lot of people — I remember I got to speak at super conference which Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer did and they were very big in this world and what was hilarious was I remember Dan Kennedy said this, I thought it was so brilliant. He was like a lot of the copy that (inaudible 38:05.9) the way he was doing copywriting for clients. He was like, a lot of the copy that I write for clients, I could literally give to them in a hour, right. I could write in an hour. He was like — but I would make them wait like for 4 weeks for it, because in the client’s head it is like, they imagine him like going over each line and deleting it and re-editing it and like mailing it to himself and opening the mail and going, that was not impactful enough and he was like, if I gave it to him in an hour they would not value it.
So I made them wait 4 weeks so that they can appreciate it and I was like you know, it was not just about the copywriting, it was just such a like the mental thing that we think it is this like really complex difficult process (inaudible 38:46.6) we can really just streamline it and get down to little things like you know, like you said, the title right, like my squeeze page, like this is little simple things that can make all the difference and then when you find it, it just kind of keep going after it really, really hard.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I totally agree.
Hey, I had a blast on this conversation. It was definitely like it is you know, we usually talked about just like, oh, this marketing strategy, this marketing tactic you know that kind of thing. So it was a good — it was a good like kind of you know, forelay out of that and into more of like a softer type of approach you know, but the funny thing is if you really nail your story I mean, I talked about you know, stories and you know, kind of you know, basically a lot of stuff you were talking about with like ability doing that in copy and if you really nail that, that can change the whole you know, the whole game. I cannot tell you how many letters I have written in you know, the beginning of the copy was a story you know what I mean.
I am actually writing one right now. You know, the beginning it is like you know, it all started in 2008, that is the first line you know, dot, dot, dot and then it kind of goes into it you know.
So you know, I love it you know, I think it is extremely valuable.
So my last kind of question is, is there anything that I missed you know, any topic or anything you want to cover that we did not get to cover over the last (inaudible 40:10.3) how long it has been 40 minutes or so.
Arel Moodie: You know, I think this was pretty, I mean, there is obviously tons of stuff you know, I would highly encouraged people you know, I think right now, at the recording on this episode, we have over 100 episodes of The Art of Likability you know, we put our episode every week. I mean literally, it is something that I do not think I could ever cover you know, in my lifetime.
So there are tons of stuff, but the key thing is to realize that no matter what you are doing, who you are right now, you do have a story to tell and you do have a part to share to the world and if you know, someone I admire is that you know, do not be a diet version of anyone else. Be an original you, you know. Like do not listen to this and become I would become a diet Jeremy Reeves, right. Do not be a diet version and like, use this information and model it to be an originally you and that is always going to work better in everything you do.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it makes you happier too you know, it is probably within the last like 2 years or so that I really started just being myself and you know, I have lost friends you know because of it and it is just like look it is just that we do not you know, we are just not really compatible anymore you know, and it was like before I was kind of just — there is one guy I am taking up right now — but it was just you know, we did not, it is not like that I do not like them you know, it is just look, you know, we are in the different things, were you know have different views on things you know, it is just kind of you were like, it is those things were you kind of just like in it like just because that is what you have been doing all — you know what I mean and you know, then one day came, I do not know, it was 1-1/2 years ago something like that and I am like just, I do not really want to hang out with him you know, and we broke up.
But I mean, it is so freeing when you really get to know who you are and I just — core level and you can just live your life as you, you know, versus like you know, who Facebook wants you to be or you know, the people on Facebook or who Instagram — your Instagram followers expect you to be or you know, even you know your wife expects you to be you know, just you you know, I mean wife, she should know like the truth you know, but maybe that was not a good example but —
Arel Moodie: I called it senior citizen confidence you know, if you look at really old people, they do not care. Yeah, I mean they walk around looking crazy, they will have shoeboxes for sneakers and they literally could not care what you have to say about that and it is like this is how I felt — like I am like how did you get out the house dress like that or look like that, but I am like that person has what I want right.
They have got the utmost confidence and unfortunately, most people do not get there until they are senior citizen, and I would encourage everyone to have senior confidence right now regardless of how old you are.
Jeremy Reeves: I can give you an example of that actually. I actually — I forgot if it was the last time or the one before, but I was going fishing right and I had this you know, I had all my get up on and I looked like the biggest dork in the world you know, and I purposely put a picture of myself on Facebook and then I would like to say like, look I looked like such an idiot you know, for that specific purpose of what you know, who cares you know, like most people they are all laughing like it is not — they are not laughing at you and even they are, who cares you know. You should not be friends with them if they are, you know what I mean.
So I would highly recommend — I do not have a word for it but like purposeful you know, embarrassment or humility you know or whatever you know, shaming yourself on purpose to gain that confidence and realize well, okay, I did that you know, I fell in front of the whole bunch of people, who cares, everybody falls you know what I mean.
You know, I lost a project you know, I am having a hard time with my finances. I got you know, I got overweight and you know, I look bad — you know, everybody has been there you know, most of us.
The actual reality is you know, way, way, way less in reality than it is in your head you know what I mean.
Arel Moodie: I will give everyone listening a bonus and this is — I mean this is — if you really get what I am about to share with you, I promise you everything transform in your life from this point forward, but everything you do.
The only thing that has power over your are the things you are ashamed of. If you are overweight, but you are not ashamed of being overweight, no one can make fun of you for being overweight you know. If you are dorky and you like Pokemon Go or you like (inaudible 44:41.5) like with all of your heart and soul, if you do not feel ashamed of it, no one can make fun of you for it.
When someone makes fun of you and it hurts you, the only reason why it really hurts is because they are ashamed that you have been connected to that and if you can get to the point like you said where — again, most people do not get this until the end of their life and I read this really great article about hospice workers and you know, what they would hear from people who on their deathbed what they wish they would have done and over and over and over again they would hear that I wish I just would not have been myself instead of what people wanted me to be.
And the only thing that will keep you from being who you really want to be is if you hold on to this concept of shame and the craziest thing about shame it only lives in your head. It only lives here like the stuff — I used to be so shameful that I had a white mom and a black dad, right.
I used to be so shameful that I was Jewish. I used to be so shameful that I was from the projects and once I let go of that, and then — I would share with people and people like no one thinks that is a big deal. Really? Because I have been walking around thinking I was loser for so long, (inaudible 45:42.6) ridiculous things and what we find is most people are so caught up in their own world like I may care about like (inaudible 45:51.3) headline about this celebrity who is going to like a divorce or problem whatever and (inaudible 45:56.3) oh my goodness look what is happening with — you know, so and so. And then I go on back to my life. I am not sitting here spending my whole day worrying about what Selena Gomez is doing and if you are and you are not a (inaudible 46:08.1) you know column writer, your life is really —
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you got to fix something else.
Arel Moodie: It takes a lot if you are like — most people, they get their head and then they move on and when you get that it freeze you because the stuff that — you can make huge mistakes as long as they are not like you know, breaking major laws or hurting people – – you can make big mistakes in your business and you know, how you interact with people and nobody cares.
I mean if you look at — I think the greatest example it is, is Robert Downey Jr. You know, years ago, he was untouchable, he was going through his drug problems and there is like hookers and then he became like one of the highest paid actors and like nobody cares.
So it is all in our head and it is just the shame that we have and when we let go of the shame, we have full confidence and power.
Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Walk through a city and dance around like a monkey and then go home and see if you get online. I guarantee you won’t and I guarantee you, you know, a couple of those people that saw you are going to say, oh my God, I saw this dude dancing around like a monkey on the street and they will have laughs and nobody will ever remember you. And that is an extreme example you know.
Arel Moodie: But it is so true, it is so true.
Jeremy Reeves: It is, it is awesome.
Well hey, man, I had a blast. I will — everybody, actually before we jumped off, you know, where can everybody get in touch with you, you know, the number one thing is definitely everybody go and download The Art of Likability. Subscribe to that in you know, in iTunes or Stitcher you know, whatever you listen to, but you know —
Arel Moodie: Yeah, so the cool thing about my name, so my name is Arel Moodie and you probably see it in like the show notes and (inaudible 47:34.8) I am literally the only Arel Moodie in the entire world, right. There is no one else in the world with my name. So if you put my name in the Google, you could find all the articles that I have written in. If you put me in Facebook or LinkedIn, you can get connected with me on social media, but yeah, the biggest thing I would tell people is you know, get the podcast, we put out episodes every single week. (inaudible 47:54.1) we have a really cool reports so if you text the word awesomesauce it is 1 word, awesomesauce to the number 44-222 so the number (inaudible 48:02.8) we probably use internet marketing, I do not have to explain it to all the people here, you know, so text awesomesauce at 44-222 and we will send you a free guide on how to dramatically increase your likability in every situation that you are in. So if you are networking, if you are going to event, if you are at work it works you know, very well. So I encourage people to do that, pull out your phone right now do it, do not just listen to my words, do it. Text the word awesomesauce to 44-222 and we will send you that and literally I love helping, I love giving, this is why we do at all.
So if I can be of service of anyway go to artoflikability.com. Leave a comment on the website. Hit me on social media. I will be happy to (inaudible 48:38.3).
Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Yeah and all that stuff will be in the show notes. So if you already forgot, what was it? Awesomesauce, 44-222, man I forgot already. That is pretty bad, but yeah, hey man, it was a pleasure having you on and good luck with everything you do.
Arel Moodie: Hey man, I appreciate in what you doing and keep doing as great.