SFM: Ep26: John McIntyre and I talk email marketing, objections, and living the good life

Today we talk with John McIntyre, a fellow email copywriter. First we begin discussing email marketing and take you deep into both of our processes for creating emails that sell on autopilot. Then we make a dramatic shift and get into a philosophical discussion about life, the addiction to money and why “constantly striving for higher revenue” is a unfulfilling way to live life for most people.

In this episode we discuss…

    • How to overcome objections using stories, case studies and more…
    • Why “tips, tricks and hacks” do NOT work…
    • Why templated systems don’t work for most people…
    • Why segmentation is the key to better email results…
    • An epic discussion on why most entrepreneurs live un-fulfilled lives…

Listen To The Podcast

Resources Mentioned

 www.McMethod.com

The Millionaire Next Door (book)

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com[email protected]

Enjoy!

Transcript

Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery podcast. Today, I have a guest on the other line. His name is John McIntyre and he is a fellow marketer, he’s an email copywriting specialist and basically, focuses on writing emails. I was actually on John’s podcast a couple of weeks ago and when that goes live, I’ll give you the link to my podcast.

So I thought that I would get him on my podcast and expose you guys to him and how he thinks. So instead doing one of the boring introduction that everybody does, I’m just going to let John tell you who he is and how he came to be and what he does and we’ll take it from there.

Jeremy Reeves: So John, how are you?

John McIntyre: I’m doing good, Jeremy. How are you?

Jeremy: I apologize. I was just taking an extra (00:57). I’m good. So tell us a little about yourself.

John: My name is John and I’m from Sydney, Australia. Though, I actually live in Thailand. A lot of people find that quite interesting. I grew up in Sydney, but I ended up in the Philippines, working. I did some marketing for a beach resort there. A nice, gorgeous resort on the beach which was a “tough life” as you can imagine.

I still remember, this is when I just getting started with the agency that I have now, I’d still remember, every morning, I’d wake up and I’d get some coffee from the resort and they were right on the beach.

So I’d grab a white plastic table and put that right next to the sand, right beneath two coconut trees and I’d get a big extension table from the restaurant and run it out to my table, out a seat there, and I’d set my laptop up and have breakfast, drink my coffee, and do some work, sitting under a coconut tree and just this bright beach (01:52).

Jeremy: Sounds torturous.

John: It was a tough period a lot. I worked really hard.

Jeremy: Nice.

John: So that was when I started around then I started learning copywriting, doing some email stuff, some sales letters, all the usual stuff. And around that, I started, I guess what you may call an ‘agency’. What’s becoming is we ended up moving to, after a year in the Philippines, I moved to Thailand. I had a conference that I went to in Bangkok. The big group went to Chiang Mai, which is an hour north of Bangkok on the plane. And I’ve been here ever since, which is two and a half years now. It just kind of whizzes by and this is what I do.

I started as a copywriter, just doing bunch of different stuff and eventually realized that most people were coming to me for email stuff and basically thought that, you understand as a copywriter, you need a thing. So my thing was going to be email marketing and I decided to call myself the “Auto-responder Guy’. And that was a year ago, eighteen months, something like that.

That was a really good decision. It worked out really well in terms of what it’s done for the business but it’s actually funny right now, I’m actually working with building out a process of bringing out bigger clients. And none of them having any idea what an auto-responder is, they don’t think in terms of auto-responders and email marketing, they think in terms of leads and database and conversions.

I’m slowly going through a slight transition. I’m trying to decide whether to drop the whole Auto-responder Guy things and go for more of that lead conversion angle. But time will tell. So that’s what I do, man. I write emails, I set up similar stuff to you, I just come out form a slightly different angle.

Jeremy: Okay. Nice. So tell us about The McMethod. What’s your process? I know one of the things you do is write ten-part email sequences for clients and you have your McMethod that you sell as a product. So tell us about your methodology for the writing the emails and the process that you go through.

John: Sure. So the first time I did this, I know this guy who’s like a tropical MBA and it’s about moving to the tropics and doing some business stuff, learning how to build a business. Anyway, so he was the first guy who hired me to write some emails for him. And what I came up with was where I will send an email every three days, ten emails a month and so what that morphed into was, you might call it a productized service (04:23) coming to me for a 10-email sequence.

So we jump on the phone (04:27) their business and then I’d give him his ten emails and do it like that. It’s fairly streamline, very easy to deliver. I’ve got guys that work for me to do (04:36) the bulk of the writing which is quite useful and (04:39) the way I do that is because it’s productized like that, it makes it quite easy to do.

And then we got a product which is called The McIntyre Method which is a four-week video training program on how to create your own ten-email sequence. But the idea, really is as I’ve grown, I’ve realized is that there’s no ideal length, there’s no ideal set of emails. If you really have a problem and you’ve got different solutions to solve that problem.

So what I do now is there are sequences where I do ten emails since that’s what a lot of people know me for, but also bringing in a lot more custom stuff. So depending on the problem, sometimes, someone really needs three or four emails, sometimes, it’s going to be quite a lot more than that.

So probably we’re looking at today, we’re looking at a proper sales funnel of something like fifty emails, I think. If you’re really going to talk about emails. So you see (05:37) the process how it happens.

Jeremy: Yeah. So that’s one of the things that I’ve learned is everybody comes out and they need different things. In fact, I just had a client he just signed up maybe a week and a half ago or so and he came and he wanted A, B, C, D. I told him he needed less than that which you usually don’t hear of that often. He was going like, “Oh, this guy had that so I need that.”

For this business, and where he’s at, he didn’t really need that exact thing. It’s funny. People need different things and a lot of people start out like I’m going to provide this is in their service, and then it comes to being more like a custom job.

So tell us when you’re writing out those sequences, it doesn’t really matter what the length, if it’s ten or if it’s fifty or anything like that. What’s the big goal that you’re trying to achieve when you’re writing out these sequences (besides sales, obviously)?

John: Right. I mean, ultimately, yeah. It does (07:08) but if people come to me and they think “Well, it’s going to be the best subject line, all the best talk, all the best story.” it’s really (07:15) because at the end of the day, the only that really matters is are you solving a problem anyone actually cares about?

And if the answer is ‘Yes’, well, great. Then you’re in business. So now you need to understand as much as you can about the person you’re trying to sell something to and as much as you can about the solution. This takes years and years to develop. This isn’t something that you can sit down and do a brainstorming session and you’ve got it. I was reading an article about to go from 1 million to 10 million to 100 million with a software start-up.

And often, it’ll take them months or if not years just to get what they call ‘Product Market Fit’. You might say it’s a terminology from the start-up world but the idea if you’ve really got to a point where you can fit the product to the solution that you’re offering to the exact needs that the person who’s buying it. And sometimes that’s going to mean changing the product, sometimes it’s only going to mean changing the copy.

And so the reason why you got to understand all that first is because that’s what drives the copy. So when you sit down to figure out “Well, we got this prospect here, he’s 37 years old, he manages a team of developers, and he works at a corporate company like Microsoft. And what he’s trying to achieve is time management.” And so there’s our prospect. He really needs to leanr how to manage his own time and the time of his team.

And then the other side, you got your product which is a software app for time management. It starts with understanding exactly what John Smith over here who works at Miscrosoft what his problems are, what his challenges are, what he really needs out of the product that you’re offering him. Once you’ve got that, then you can go and build the product.

Because ideally, the product’s driven by John Smith’s needs, otherwise it’s not going to work for him and once you got that product, and assuming you got those two pieces worked out, because this is the thing, a lot of people come after that. It was kind of really interesting, I was at a marketing conference in the U.S. last September.

And one thing I find, maybe this is just me being an Australian, coming from the outside direct response world but it seems a bit everyone always talks about hacks or how to optimize your sales copy, how to get a better funnel.

Very rarely, does anyone ever say “Is this business worth having in the first place?”

Jeremy: Yeah.

John: It’s funny how I always come back to this question of like that’s the 99% of the battle is, are you selling sh*t that someone actually cares about? That’s in a nutshell. But assuming you’ve got that, assuming you’ve nailed that or you’re in the process of nailing that, how are we going to come up with the same auto-responder or any kind of marketing pieces you think about.

I think about like you’re on a bridge, you’re on (10:01) and on one side of this (10:02), you’ve got his prospect and he’s John Smith, he’s got his problem that he needs to track the time to himself and his team and do it accurately and a bunch of different problems like that. And on the other side of the (10:13), you’ve got your product (10:17). And this could be an ebook on how to save time, it could be a software app, it could be a DVD series,.

One thing I’m going to say is that the product doesn’t really matter as long as it solves his problems. We’ve got this. Prospect on once of the (10:28), and the product on the other. The way I see it, the goal of any marketing piece is just to bridge that gap. So when I say bridge that gap, is that you’re really going to sit down and list why wouldn’t John Smith buy that in the first place?

And step number one, he doesn’t know what the hell it is, he doesn’t even know it exists. So step number one, is making John aware that there is a solution to his product. Now let’s say he went to John and say “Here’s my solution. Do you want to buy it?” he’s going to be like “Well, No. I got no idea who you are.” Alright, so there’s one objection. He doesn’t know who you are.

So your auto-responder needs to:

Number one, get his attention. Because without his attention, he’s not going to know who you are. So that’s more of a traffic issue. But then you need to establish the authority otherwise he’s going to be like “No, I don’t trust you.” then he’s going to be like “I trust you but I know anyone else who’s used this. Do you have any stores? Is there anyone else using this or am I the first person? And it’s like therefore you need testimonials and case studies.

And so what happens is once you understand what John’s all about and what objections he might have, what’s really stopping him from making that purchase in the first place? Then you have a list of five to ten main things. Main problems, main objections that you need to handle before he’s going to buy that product.

And the auto-responder just becomes a bunch of emails or a series of emails, could be a straight sequence, could be segmented in bunch of different ways, but the main thing is it’s knocking out each of those objections in as many different angles as possible.

Jeremy:Nice. That’s a really good point. When I worked with clients, I actually have a ‘she’, it’s like I call my copywriting researchee and it has twelve pages long of information that I fill out based on the avatar of the person and the demographics and the market and the competitors.

One of the things on there is I write down a sheet of paper all the objections I could possibly think of and then as I’m writing the copy, whether it’s a sales letter or an email sequence, I literally cross off each objection to make sure all of them are hit.

The same thing with benefits, because you can create sentences and paragraphs that overcome the objection and then transition into giving them the benefit. I wish I had an example at the top of my head but I don’t. So it’s good to actually write it down rather than just having it in your head and hoping that you hit all of them.

John: Absolutely! Part of the product that I’ve got to teach the people how to do this, is you make a list of these objections and then you just down. When you write your emails, you write an email for this objection, and then you write for this objection, and then you write for this objection. It’s really that simple.

Jeremy: Yeah. Let me ask you, what are some of your favorite ways of overcoming those objections. Do you use outside proof or anything like that to overcome those objections or do you just tackle them directly? What are your favorite ways to overcome the objections?

John: To be honest, this goes back to understanding John Smith, your prospect. Like for example, my buddy calls me up and he says “Hey, we’re all going out tonight for dinner. Do you want to come?” and I’m like “No, I can’t.” and then he just starts saying stuff “Oh, come on, man. you don’t need to work tonight. It’s The Friday night. We’re going to go out.” but low and behold, I wasn’t even working in the first place. That wasn’t the reason I couldn’t go.

So what he’s done there is he’s hit the wrong objection. This goes back to you doing sportsh as a 5 levels of awareness. You’ve really got to take the time to understand where someone’s at in that awareness cycle. And this is from someone who’s got no idea that you have any problem to someone who’s aware that he has problem, aware that there’s solutions out there and he’s really just looking between solutions.

And every layer in between that is five main layers, although five ways that he splits it up. as for how I do it, with email, storytelling is really the biggest thing you can do with emails. It fits perfectly. But ultimately, you really need to know if the trust is the issue, then you’re going to need case studies and you’re going to need proof. Maybe trust isn’t the issue. Maybe the industry is so well-established, that he doesn’t actually need trust. He believes you, he just wants a better price.

So what you need to write is you need to have a special offer, where it’s a time-sensitive offer for a lower price. It really depends on what angle you’re going for. this is why sometimes it’s hard. It’s much fancier if I can get on a podcast and say “Well, Jeremy. I’ve got this three-step system…”

Jeremy: Yeah.

John: Gurus do this all the time. But it’s total crap. There is no formula to do it.

Jeremy: Like you’re saying before, it’s the same with little tricks and things like that and little hacks and all that kind of stuff. Most people are trying these weird, little hacks and tracks, but they don’t have the basics in place. They’re trying to do all of those but they’re missing the stories, they’re missing the case studies, they’re missing the understanding who they’re talking to.

Like your example before. You’re saying giving them the wrong objection. I can’t tell you how many email sequences that I’m on and they’re like “Do you suffer from this?” or “Is this your problem?” (16:20) notes actually not even close.

One of the things you can do to overcome that is segmentation. What are your thoughts on segmentation and writing emails to more, say, you have a 10,000-person list segmenting based on their interests, maybe website behavior, like what pages they visited, so you know more about them. What’s your experience on that?

John: The reason I’m laughing right now is that I’ve been so bad at segmenting for so long. It’s something that’s changing right now. For example, the traffic that goes to my site is probably two main segments. I could split them up in a bunch of different ways but the two main ones are people who want to learn how to write emails themselves and become a copywriter and get their own clients.

Maybe they just took off their own business and on the other side is people who had a business and they don’t have time to write themselves, they need to hire someone. So it’s taken me the longest, it’s so easy to do and I did this recently, actually.

But it was so easy to set up so now what happens is if someone signs up, the first thing that happens, is the next page is just like “Alright, you’re almost done, before I could set you up your email sequence, your tips, answer this question – when it comes to converting more leads to business, would you rather write an email or convert the leads yourself or hire an expert to do it for you?”

And so what happens after that now, based on what they say in response, I, then send them a custom sequence. So obviously, an example here would be like, the people who sign up, who want to do it themselves, they’re really interested., they want to have a lifestyle, they want to have an automated business, they want to have passive income, email marketing, auto-responders.

And on the other side that really want to hire an expert, they’re mostly likely thinking about leads, leads, databases, conversions, revenues, then I’m really thinking about email marketing and auto-responders and quick my job and travel kind of thing.

And already, I’m so glad that it’s already been making a difference. I wish I got started doing this segmenting earlier because I’ve got a list of thousands of people and I only know the ones recently who are actually interested in hiring someone.

Jeremy: And it really is good. There’s a lot of ancillary benefits that go along with that. Like number one, you are able target them better and talk to them better and do all the things that we’ve been talking about the last twenty minutes.

Another is your deliverability goes up because your open rates and your click-through rates, and all of your email stats increase so then that gives the email… I don’t know the tech behind it.

John: The email gotsky.

Jeremy: Yeah, the email gotsky. It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy, the higher your opening click-through rates, the higher, they say “Okay, well. You’re sending relevant..” It’s kind of like Google. You’re sending relevant content to them, so I’m going to increase your reputation and that in turn gets better deliverability, so then more people see it, and it keeps that cycle continuous.

Same thing with cleaning out your list. Everybody always wants a huge numbers list. This is something I am lacking in too so I can’t really harp on anybody for doing this. But cleaning out your list, like looking at people who haven’t opened your emails in the last three months or two months or six months and putting them into a re-engagement campaign and not sending to them.

If you have a (20:16) to your list that hasn’t been engaged in the last six months and then you put them on a separate list and start sending only to people who have been engaged, your open rates and click-through rates are going to go up by roughly 30% and then again, your deliverability goes up and the whole cycle continues.

So one question, it’s not exactly with auto-responders, but what is your opinion on a lot of people just want to grow their business but I feel like they don’t really know why. It’s like “Oh, I have to hit seven figures.” And my question is why? Why do you want to hit seven figures, or eight figures or six figures?

And a lot of people really don’t know the answer. What’s your opinion on people just growing businesses versus having an actual reason for hitting a specific number to be able to afford a certain lifestyle or anything like that. I know this has nothing to do with emails but it’s…

John: No, I love this question. This is something that’s been on my mind a lot lately because I live in Thailand – Chiang Mai, Thailand. I lot of people live out here because the cost of living is quite low. And when I got here, I was probably a lot more budget-conscious when I first arrived. Now it’s I don’t have a budget, basically.

And if I tried to live the same kind the way I tried to live here, I’d eat out all the time, I’d have great apartment in the best part of the town, taking regular trips to all sorts of places. This weekend, we’re doing a dirt bike trip two days way up in the mountains. So one day up, one day back. Renting bikes, all the gear.

And one day, I’ve been chatting to a couple of friends (22:14) today is this idea where when you get into business, especially this whole copywriting, just this whole entreprenuership thing, the whole hustle and grind and who’s working the most hours and who had the best product launch, it’s so glorified. I feel like it’s a one upmanship game where everyone’s trying to do better, very few people really stop and get a hang on – do you really want that?

Is this really what life’s about? Just hanging out? And who can put in the most hours and who can split test and who can build the biggest business because I don’t think it is. But you never want to say that because it’s kind of sacrilegious to say that like a business in marketing form, Facebook groups or some webinar. Like, no one would ever come out and say “No, I don’t want to make seven figures.”

Jeremy: Yeah. Oh, I do. Like, I say that, I mean.

John: Right. Interesting is I’d like to have a start-up that does a $100 million. Like, I’d love to have a copy like that but the more I think about it, I’m reading another book by Felix Denis it’s called ‘The Narrow Road’.

Jeremy: Yeah. It’s a good one.

John: Yeah. It’s (23:34) but I mean. I’m reading (23:37) in one of his essays he mentions that if you want to do a start-up and you want to build and make more of like a $100 million company. But the example was basically they were cramming thirty years of your working life into four years and so doing that means your life is work for that amount of time.

And it’s not as simple as that, it’s not like you do it for four years and you bail, you go for four years and you go public, then there’s a bunch of more mess, and the works gets even bigger and your health suffers, and it’s going to be quite hard to manage any kind of social life, let alone a marriage or kids or anything like that.

We’re often sold the dream and we sell each other on this, this dream that you can have anything you want and it’s just not true. It’s kind of like you can have anything you want but you can’t have everything. What I think about me for me personally, I enjoy living in Thailand. It would be easier if I was in the U.S Timezone, for example. But I prefer living out in Thailand. There’s cost with that. Or it would be very hard to have a start-up out here. Or I like going to the gym and taking off to the gym for two hours, couple times a week.

Or taking an afternoon off. Like today and yesterday, I took a nap in the park. Read a book, took a nap, you’re just here, you don’t feel like working, you’re just like sweet! All I can chill, read a book, take a nap, listen to the birds, and if you’re going to build a million dollar company or a ten million company, those moments, when you get to do a lot of that stuff, become a lot rarer. But no one’s willing to talk about that.

Jeremy: Yeah, I know. It’s something that I’m really focusing a lot on in my life, like I’ve hot the point where I don’t “need” more money. I’m taking care of everything. Like, my lifestyle, I do pretty much whatever I want to do which now I’m limited because I have a one and two-year-old. But I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately.

And it’s like, my kind of growth strategy is I want to continue growing just because I like the challenge of it, but I keep a criteria that I work up until 3:30. Usually 3:00. 3:30 is like my max end time in the afternoon so I’m growing as much as I can and focusing on net income, not gross. I don’t care about gross, whatsoever. But focusing on net, what I actually bring home and can write checks with. But I won’t work past 3:30. That’s my criteria.

I think it’s good for people to have criteria. Maybe you work really hard during the week, you take the whole weekend off. I made a new webinar. It was a two to three weeks ago and people’s excuse for the whole workaholic thing is “My business is my passion.” So I work constantly for that and my response is always “Man, you must live a boring-ass life because if you have one passion, that must be awful.”

Like, why would you want to live life with one passion. Working is my passion. I love working, I live writing, I love coming up with strategy and all that kind of stuff. But I do that for the third of the day. And then I get spend time with my kids and spend time with my wife. I do the same thing, if I just don’t feel like working in the afternoon, I’ll take a nap, or I’ll go out back and work out, play with the kids in the yard, go for a walk.

You have to ask yourself why? I want to double my business this year – why?

John: Eventually, like, one thing I’ve found and this has been fairly common of the guys I know in Thailand is no matter where you live, if you go to business, eventually you’re going to get to the point where you make enough money to do all these you want and save some money, like you’ve covered all your bases.

Then it’s like “Well, I could keep working hard and there’s wrong with that and it can be really fun to work hard but the bigger question, and this is the one I’ve been trying to work on lately, is (28:22 – 28:24) but for the most part, life is free and amazing. Like, I’m traveling around and I’m 25. So I’m like young, got this cool stuff going on, but then it’s a bit like “Well, now, what now?”

It’s fun to have a mission and I enjoy the challenge of doing the business and growing your business, but I don’t want to do it all the time. So the question becomes “What does it mean to have a good life, to build a good life?”

And the answer’s going to be different for everyone and I’m still figuring it out what that means to me but in many ways I love my job, I love working hard, I love the challenge, I love getting in the ring and having a go but I don’t think grinding on the laptop all day, that I won’t do. I agree, if someone’s life is just working, I don’t know how that fun that is.

Jeremy: I know. I never got that. For me, I think I’m a little bit lucky in the sense that as my kids were growing up and as Katie was pregnant, that’s when my business started taking off and I wasn’t already a workaholic before kids, it kind of happened in lock step. I think I’m a little bit lucky in that sense that I was able to cement those values at the right time.

Because let’s just say you had kids at 35. And from 20 or 25 to 35, you were a workaholic, you were building a big business, it’s hard to break out of that and I understand that. But I also think that a lot of people use it as a crutch, it’s like “Oh, I have to…”

Here’s a good example, I have one client, she has a three and a half billion dollar business, the personal income is very high, more than anybody ever needs, she can have an awesome lifestyle, but I’ve been harping on her.

I’ll try not to say too much information so people won’t know who is but I’ve been talking with her lately and she just e,ailed me last week and her husband booked a vacation for nine days away, they’re taking free days because I introduced her to Strategic Coach, the free days and all that kind of stuff, where you take the day off where it’s zero business.

There’s no email, there’s no thinking about business, no talking about business, like no business whatsoever and she emailed me that she and her husband booked 9-day vacation away and there’s no cellphone reception or anything like that. And she said that she hasn’t had time away from her business since 2006…

John: Wow…

Jeremy: But it is possible, she went all those years and she was just stuck in that rut of just working and working and working and working and what broke her out of it was her daughter, she’s really sick, she got like a tick (31:52) illness, I think (31:53) disease, I would imagine. And so she’s in the hospital a lot, like one of her flares up, she has it really bad, apparently. So this client, she’s like “I can’t like I have anymore because I need to be there for my daughter.”

So she finally made the decision to make less money and scale back the business so she can have more free time. It’s interesting. I think it’s definitely worth thinking about for people. And on eof the things that helps with me, I know exactly how much money I need ti have my “perfect dream lifestyle” plus have enough savings for like long-term financial independence (32:46) real estate and all that. Plus, I always leave in a buffer, for like, kind of the just in case and then taxes and then everything.

But I have a specific number that I’m trying to reach and I’m not quite there yet, I’m starting to get close but I’m not quite there yet but I have a specific number that when I hit it, it’s like trying to hit that number without working longer and that’s my thing that I came up with that works really, really well for me.

So everybody should just think, map out your dream lifestyle, exactly how much money you need and then work to get that. You can probably do with a lot less, by the way. You really don’t need that much.

John: This is like a fascinating thing because like this is… This is the (33:40) I’ve noticed about businesses is a lot of people want to get into it to make more money, to have a better lifestyle, they’re often one of like good financial sense, look at investors, anything to do with money and economics, is one of the best things you can do is just learn to spend less than you are.

While earning more can help and you can have a better lifestyle and all that, like (33:59) today, actually. I was online, that was a lady’s site, multi-level marketing something, the testimonial was like “We started making all this, we bought a new house and we bought a new car.” that’s one of the worst things you could’ve done.

Jeremy: I know.

John: Because that cements, that’s enlisting yourself, because I’m assuming they probably would have up’d the house payments, up’d the car payments, because people have consumer mentality. At a certain point, you’re going to realize this what’s pretty much living in Thailand is getting this experience of having a huge amount of wealth without spending that much money for it. You kind of realize, well, there’s not much difference.

I stayed in $300 a night business hotels in Bangkok and afterwards, it’s a nice hotel and it was cool and everything but it’s really not much different from a $50 a night hotel.

Jeremy: Yeah.

John: I like motorcycles. I could buy a Ducati for $35,000 but then I’m like “I’d get another bike for $7,000” and it’s going to do %99 of the same enjoyment for way less or even better I can just rent a motorcycle every week, whenever I feel like going, then I don’t have to deal with licensing, the registration, I don’t have to deal with insurance or any of the stuff and I can have a bike anytime I want I want to go and ride it.

Jeremy: One of the things that helps with that is getting rid of your ego.

John: Yeah.

Jeremy: If you’re buying stuff that’s more high-end, it’s almost always because you want other people to see that you’re successful. And maybe that pisses some people off but that’s the truth of it.

John: Have you read ‘The Millionaire Next Door’?

Jeremy: Yeah. That was a good book.

John: One of the lines that stuck with me (35:47), he basically said that “At a certain point, you’ve got to choose, with the money that we all have, you got to make a choice between how you’re going to spend the money to acquire social status, which is basically buying high-status items like nice cars, houses, watches, clothes, anything that makes you look better as a person, or you’re going to use that money that you make to prioritize wealth-building which means investing and saving and living in a worse neighborhood, buying second-hand cars, and not buying expensive shoes.”

There’s a choice and people don’t realize that they’re making a choice when you go buy a new house or a new car or something nice, you’re prioritizing ego and social status instead of wealth. I think if some people think about it, they might realize because this is what I think about like I like social status too. I’d love to have a Ferrari but what’s more important to me in the long run where I’d rather have the wealth. I think I’d rather have the wealth and freedom than the Ferrari.

Jeremy: Yeah, and with the wealth, like a view of $10 million sitting in the bank, it’s peace of mind. Then you can go out and buy a Ducati or whatever. But get the wealth sitting in the bank first. And start (36:59).

I was doing some Funnel Days in Florida. I went in and rented, for my car, because I’ve never been a car person, when I was a teenager I was into the Riser kind of car, the little like the Eclipses and the Hondas and all that, they’re all loud, the Fast and Furious kind of stuff which I this is absolutely embarrassing now, but I sued to be into cars but not really that much, so when I was in Florida, I was like, “You know what? I’m going to see what it’s like to drive a really fast car.”

So I got this high-end Mustang and I was like it’s cool driving around in it, it makes you feel like a big hotshot and it’s fast and it’s fun and all that kind of stuff. But it’s just not worth the extra you’re going to spend. I have an expensive car, I have a Tahoe but because we have kids and we need the extra space. We always have strollers in the car our other car that we have is an Equinox which is not really expensive but it doe the trick.

It gets you from A to B and it’s not this big, fancy, high-end car. And the same, the Tahoe, it was more expensive but we needed the space. we needed the extra seat in the car, we needed the trunk room for the strollers and stuff so it’s a pretty practical car but most people don’t need big, giant cars like that. but it’s interesting what people spend their money on and why they spend their money that stuff.

John: Yeah, really interesting.

Jeremy: Wait. I know the conversation kind of took a pretty wild turn from emails. I apologize. My voice, if it’s starting to get hoarse, I’ve been battling a cold now for like ten days and it refuses to go away.

But yeah, it was a pleasure talking to you. Before we head off, thanks again for everything. But before we head off, tell everybody about who can benefit from getting into your world and what do you have to offer people?

John: Sure. So what I do I mean (39:38) the email marketing stuff, so if you want to learn emails better want to basically convert more leads into customers, that’s what I do. So if you head over to my website that I operate from is www.TheMcMethod.com. There’s a bunch of stuff there. I’ve got a podcast. I’m almost up to 100 episodes and every episode is an interview with a marketer, like Jeremy, which should be live in a couple weeks.

I’ve got Perry Marshall, John Carlton, John Benson, Russell Brighton, some of the biggest guys in the industry and exactly what their marketing strategies are. Honestly, that’ll be the best place to start but there’s obviously, I sent that email tips which he heard a little about the funnel here.

And there’s a community and coaching and all that sort of stuff which you’ll see in the back end but I’d say the place to start would be to check out the site and have a listen to the podcast, if you like that, join the list, and hit me up.

Jeremy: Yeah. Sounds good. Alright, thanks everybody for listening. As always, if you got value out of this, share it, and write reviews on iTunes because that helps to get more people listening to the podcast, make sure to send it to your friends, and colleagues, anybody who would benefit, head over to JeremyReeves.com.

If you have any questions or you would like to work with me or check out any of my products or go to www.TheMcMethod.com to check out John’s stuff and we’ll talk to you next time.

John: Sounds great, Jeremy. Thanks for having me.

Jeremy: Alright, thanks. Have a good one.

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