Brad Degraw On Leveraging Amazon For Business Growth

In this episode, we chat with Brad Degraw. Brad is “The Amazon Geek” and helps his clients scale ads on Amazon using a simple framework that just simply gets results. Whether you already have products on Amazon or want to create new products to add a new revenue stream to your business, this is a great episode to get the ball rolling and give you what you need to get started with this untapped media platform.


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Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery and today I have on the line Brad DeGraw and this is going to be a pretty intense conversation I think because I am a huge fan of selling stuff on Amazon.

I always thought it was kind of cool, but I have never actually done it.

I have a couple clients that sell things on Amazon. I help them with their descriptions and you know, taking them from Amazon into an online sales funnel that kind of thing. Maybe we will get into that, but you know, I no nothing about actually setting it up and like what you should do to you know, increase your — you know, whatever Amazon search or engine rankings or whatever you call them. I am sure there is a term for it, I do not even know.

But yes, we are going to talk about essentially how to sell a whole bunch stuff on Amazon, right.

So Brad is kind of the you know, the Amazon God or Amazon nerd as he calls himself. He started with a $100 and basically computer and turned it into over a million dollars in Amazon sales.

So he clearly knows what he is talking about.

So Brad how are you?

Brad DeGraw: Excellent, excellent. Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming on.

So before we get into all the Amazon stuff. This is actually a podcast first and we are going to kind of start with a couple of questions to get to know you a little better.

You have had a little bit of time to think about 4 of them, but the 5th one is going to be surprised. It is going to be — it will be funny, it is one that like — If I had you think about it, it would not be as good of an answer. You will see once we get there.

So the first one is what is your favorite alcoholic drink?

Brad DeGraw: You know, I have not drink in several years. It is something (inaudible 1:55.3) these days it is just Arnold Palmer, but back in the day, it was anything with rhum.

Jeremy Reeves: Rhum, okay, nice.

What is one bad habit that you are trying to get rid off?

Brad DeGraw: You know, I move really quickly through life and I feel like I do not take enough time to like learn about people at deeper level.

So slow down. Learn people’s names and stories.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, that is a good one. I like that. Wow, that is hard to beat. That is really good.

So what is the one thing in your bucket list that you want to cross off. It is on there, you have not cross off, but you were like, once you hit, it is like one of those things that it is like you know, yes.

Brad DeGraw: You know, for me, I love to see the Northern lights. I love to take my woman out there and just watch the sky change colors and do its thing.

Jeremy Reeves: That is on mine too.

Brad DeGraw: Excellent.

Jeremy Reeves: Another one. Similar one. I want to see the milky way galaxy like you know, without like being in space, you know what I mean like from earth you know what I mean and I guess sometimes like in certain parts of the year and certain places like up on top of mountain and stuff you can kind of see you know, it is clear enough that you can actually see like you know, the whole kind of thing you know.

Brad DeGraw: Cool.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So it is kind of a similar thing.

If you could change one thing about your life instantly, just snap your fingers and it is done, what would that be?

Brad DeGraw: Man, I wish my wife would have her green card. I could have that and we could travel international and do some awesome things. That is the biggest snap of the fingers.

Jeremy Reeves: How long is that going to take?

Brad DeGraw: Supposed to be 6 months. We are still waiting. That is all we can do at this point, just wait.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is the government. You will be waiting in a while.

Brad DeGraw: (inaudible 3:34.7).

Jeremy Reeves: Alright. The final one before we get into the good stuff is, when I say, do not think about it whatever pops in your head, just say it, right.

What is your spirit animal?

Brad DeGraw: Turtle.

Jeremy Reeves: I know see. And that is why I do not want you to think about it, whatever animal pops in you know and it is funny because I forgot somebody did that to me one time and I am like, it is such like a weird question, but it is like, it is just funny you know, I mean it is like — then you (inaudible 4:08.6) why a turtle. Why not like a cheetah or like a rhino or like —

Alright so — I like that question. It is fun.

So with those out of the way. Let us — you know, I guess tell us about what you do and with clients and you know, kind of just you know, dive into to what you do and like what is the Amazon world look like.

Brad DeGraw: Yeah, absolutely.

So for me, what I do is I find markets. People have a specific problem fantasy desire. Maybe they have diabetes or curly hair and they want straight hair. I find some emotional thing and I read the 1, 2 and 3 star reviews of products they already buying and (inaudible 4:51.3) expectations.

So I go out to make (inaudible 4:54.1) and make those products better under our brand.

That is the short and sweet part of it. Then we teach people how to do the same thing.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, it is awesome.

It is actually kind of funny because you know, I was like, I write copy for selling you know, services and products and things like that and one of our main focus is when we are doing a research to understand the market is the same thing. You go to Amazon. You look to the reviews you know so it is actually funny you said, not a lot of people do that or even know to do that, but I mean, oh my God, such a gold in there. I mean people just pour their souls out in Amazon you know.

So what kind of products do you sell? You know, are they high ticket or low ticket. Does that not matter. Do you focus more on like the pain you know, like the level of the pain.

Brad DeGraw: It is a little bit of everything. So we have pet products. We have parenting products. We have survival products/privacy, outdoor fitness products, and sexual wellness products. We have a little bit of everything.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice.

When you — I guess you know, take us to the process like what does it look like — you know, say somebody on here is — I guess we will start if they do not have a product and then we will get into like the (inaudible 6:06.2) things you can do to optimize your campaigns, but let us just say that you know, you are listening to this and somebody that wanted to get into the Amazon kind of like me.

Like, at some point, I am going to do it. I have not done it yet, it is kind of like one of those things you know, like a little side project that I want to do on the weekends or whatever, at least to you know, for the first time doing it.

What is like the process you know?

Brad DeGraw: So the process, you know this from writing copy.

First, you have to have market. Market is not like a platform. A market is a group of people who are passionate about spending money on a specific problem, fantasy, and desire.

So you are not going to end up with catch a popsicle, something that no one wants. You are going to end up maybe targeting women who are pregnant with their second child and they want to maintain their body.

They know what the first kid did to them and they wanted to do everything they can to kind of keep their body together. That would be a specific type of market.

So let us jus use a very specific example. I live in Colorado and there are a couple of rules in Colorado. You have to have a mountain bike and you have to have a dog. That is just a rule. And if you do not have one that means you neighbor has got two.

So if you can take that people who have dogs and bikes well you want to ride your bike and you want to walk your dog. So we looked it. There is actually a product for that and it is like a bike leash. So instead of holding it in your hand while you are trying to you know, stir the bike, there is a device that you can put on to the seat and it will kind of like make the dog run behind you.

And so we look at this product and said wow sales are through the roof, but if we read the 1, 2, and 3 star reviews, there are some flaws with the product.

Number 1 is being made in China with really lousy metal like pop metal. I am not a scientist, but if we can go from garbage to maybe steel, it is going to weigh a little bit, but is going to last. It is not going to break and your dog is not going to send you into traffic or the dog with the traffic.

So great. We hire a designer. You do not have to be an engineer or anything like that. We hired someone, say, here are the flaws read the 1, 2, and 3 star reviews on Amazon and he made the new version of it.

So he made all the drawings. We sent it over, had some molds made and now we can go through like Kickstarter to build up an audience while Facebook and then Kickstarter and then Amazon, but if you do not want to do the Facebook and Kickstarter that is fine. You can go right into Amazon because there is an ecosystem of buyers ready who may have bikes, they have dogs and they are looking for that solution.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, and you know what, I always — I am always kind of you know, a lot of entrepreneurs do this and it is like you know, you come up because you are so — if you are the right kind of entrepreneur at least, like our mindset revolves around, okay, well here is the problem, how do I solve it you know.

That is why — I think a lot of entrepreneur guys get in trouble with their wives because you should not do that in a relationship you know what I mean and I know I always fight myself mentally. It is like you know, when Katie, my wife Katie which she is actually pregnant number 3 by the way.

So like, when there is a problem, my mind is, how do I fix it you know, where as you know, in most cases it is okay, no I just have to listen to — and you know, and that kind of thing. We will not go into like the whole relationship part.

Brad DeGraw: No. You figure it out that is the secret to marriage (inaudible 9:21.3). Do you want me to fix it now or do you want me to listen.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I actually sometimes — I sometimes actually ask that exact question and she is like, no, just listen, you know, and I am like fine, alright, you know, let me get a drink.

You know, but then sometimes, she is like, no, I need like, I do not want — I need it fix you know, and I am like, boom, boom, boom.

So a lot of times like I have had a whole bunch of like you know, invention-type ideas in my head right. Especially when I am doing things where I am not that good at it and it is like, this thing you know, because you (inaudible 9:56.8) fresh eyes. So like I am just starting to get into like building things with my hands. I was never really like a builder you know, but I have realized that it is really good to get into a flow state you know, which is good for like disconnecting from business.

So I have been building a lot of stuff lately. I am still like in that kind of like learning you know, I am not really that good you know, I am smashing my fingers and hammers and all that kind of thing, but there is a lot of tools that I am using right and I am like why is not this like you know over here like the other side or whatever.

So let us just say that you are like that. A lot of people listening to this probably are, they probably you know, heard like thought of ideas. How long does it take like you know, what you just said actually made it sound so simple because the reason I have never actually made anything was not really like time or money or anything in that, it was more like, oh, I have never done it you know and like I never really — like in my head, the process is like you know, like (inaudible 10:54.6) but it seems like it is not that bad.

Brad DeGraw: What I just described is the most complicated way to do it and that can take you maybe 3 months (inaudible 11:05.4) start to finish (inaudible 11:06.9) the idea to where you have your first organic sales.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay.

Brad DeGraw: You could even go a shorter process. So here is a great example. Pokemon came out like a month and a half ago. My kid and I are in the park and we have overhear someone like, oh man, by battery just died. Oh I got 1% I am going to have to go home soon and so our ears perked up (inaudible 11:26.9) even my kid he is like, hmmm, I wonder how we could solve that and there is a device called a power bank right, it is an external battery hook up that you can just recharge your phone portable.

So what if we sold portable power that was already charged. You can solve (inaudible 11:43.4) utility company. Now given the hardware and the power and so I got on Alibaba that night. I am looking up power banks they are $2.31 per unit. Ordered 500 of them and before I could even get to market to it someone wanted to buy my brand. I had a great little domain and a name and so before I could even take the inventory and get it into Amazon, someone bought my brand, and made an offer.

Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome.

Brad DeGraw: So you could even — you can do a shorter process, they call it, oh yeah man, it is basically off the shelf technology. You are not developing anything a thing you just say how much for that thing can you put my name on it. Also, it is called private label.

So you could even do a (inaudible 12:25.2) and you can turn that around in a week, 2 weeks, let us say 2 weeks.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you.

Yes. I mean it sounds like the process is not even that bad you know, alright so let us say, let us say design. Let us just say that — I tried to look at something in my room here. I do not know like a new glass, I do not know, maybe something more complicated than that. A new timer, like an egg timer, right.

So you have some kind of cool concept for an egg timer. What would you go and you know for the designer because I guess that would be the first thing. I guess like say, hey, here is what I am envisioning with it and then like what type of designer do you like you know, you go into the Google and it is like you know, X designer you know —

Brad DeGraw: It is literally a product designer and depending on how specific it is. It could be a plastics engineer or silicone engineer. You can get very, very granular and there are people who have studied their whole life on how to engineer plastics to do special things.

So if you were doing timer let us say, it is a timer to I do not know, reward your dog. Like you are out of the house and you want to get a treat every hour. So it does not go crazy and tear up your house. Great. So you say it well, it is a product, I mean a product engineer. It is probably going to be made of plasticish and it is probably basically going to be a little spin timer. Done.

And you reach out, you can Google you know, product engineer and find the match.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay. How do they you know, do you pay them, is it like by project, by hour, it is probably various.

Brad DeGraw: It still varies. So you could do a little bit of both. You can say, hey, this is what I think it is going to be, send me a scope of work and I would like you to bid it. Tell me how much do you need for a flat rate. Tell me much you need for an hour and we need to know time and money. How long is going to take it to complete it. How much is going to cost me.

Jeremy Reeves: So it is similar hiring someone for like a software program.

Brad DeGraw: Same thing. They are service provider.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, but instead of software — and I am imaging a lot of times because one idea I have always had — so my wife has epilepsy right.

So I am always you know, when she is out of the house I mean she could be on the walk with the kids and she has seizure you know, on the side of the road.

So I have always wanted to come out with something that was like some type of you know, some kind — type of thing that would like measure it, like you know, it probably be like a predictor type of thing.

So it is like, I do not know something happened like the electrical signals if she wore it on her wrist or necklace or something and it would — like certain type of electrical signal hits it, it would send me a message something like that, so like would that be more of like a software type of thing or —

Brad DeGraw: That would be both. You are starting to go into kind of an IOT space with wearable technology and it is coming. There are already people working on that.

Last year we went to the trade show called CES and it is all about the future technology like showcase there and then it comes out in a year or two. There are already at least 4 companies working on wellness monitors specifically for like senior citizens, but it is not that — it could not be use (inaudible 15:31.7) but yeah, that is a big, big problem and whoever solves that the best it will be a billion dollar company.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely.

Okay, yes. So I got (inaudible 15:42.9) now you got me one to start. Because I am always you know, I am always tell my wife and my wife always you know, she is always like, well, Jeremy, why do not you just do it and I am like, yeah, you know, and then got this thing going on and that thing and — but like, the real reason (inaudible 15:56.3) in my head the amount of work was way bigger than I actually think it is you know what I mean.

Brad DeGraw: For that because the software itself — I actually went down this (inaudible 16:07.6).

Jeremy Reeves: That is probably the harder, yeah.

Brad DeGraw: You are talking around $100,000 for the software side of it and for the most start ups I got a crazy idea. You do not want to spend $100,000 on the crazy idea.

So it is okay to let someone else roll with that one and there is some really smart companies working on it right now.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, okay. Sounds good.

So let us know, you know, let us say that you have the product whether you created or you got it from something like Alibaba or whatever the case is and now you are at the point where you actually on Amazon and it is like alright let’s you know, let us actually make money you know, let us sell this.

What are some of the things that you have seen that work?

You know, because I know the last client that I work with on Amazon product, he was telling me how basically — like he was kind of talking about the organic results from Amazon and reviews are huge you know, that type of thing and just like you know, SCL all the various ways to kind of rank yourself better you know. So what are some of those besides reviews because that is kind of obvious one.

Brad DeGraw: Well it gets really, really simple. Once you have a great product, your business is really 2 things and you love this from being a copywriter (inaudible 17:19.5) traffic and conversion. That is it.

So traffic wise, it is search term. You have to have the right search terms. There is a feel when you create your listings that says keywords. You want to load that up with keywords. You have 5 lines each of them can hold a thousand characters and number one thing that newbies fail to do is fill that thing up. That is your real estate. That is how you dance with the search bots, so your search terms.

Next up is getting reviews. We use bloggers. There is a service called Tomoson. It is kind of like a dating site for bloggers and rent owners that you kind of match them up, which is perfect because not only do you have the Amazon review but they are blogging about your product everywhere.

So you have some juice.

Next, also, most people miss this, you have customer questions and answers right there above the reviews most people miss it, but the blogs really, really love this.

So each one of those is a high quality back link. Without getting super technical, means every question, every response is going to help you start ranking for that relevant market.

Does that make sense?

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love that.

Brad DeGraw: And then another — this is super, super important. Do not try to do this yourself. The images. People do judge based on your first image that has everything to do with your kind of click through rating. Nothing super technical, has something intriguing, has something compelling that is emotional, not just like an iPhone hero shot you know, it has to be compelling.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I mean everybody is you know, everybody says, do not judge a book by its cover, but it is literally impossible not to. It is, I mean you know, there is no saint on earth that does not like — there is not a split second you know —

Brad DeGraw: Why — it is how we survive this long (inaudible 19:01.9) species because we understand danger or you know, pleasure.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah.

So how about you know, let us say you know, actually before we go there. Is there anything with you know, with the copywriting, so like with the description, you want the keywords, but you also want to sell the product right.

So you know, you actually have to talk to them about what they are suffering from and you know, how your, you know, widget overcomes that and how it is unique and awesome you know, that kind of thing.

So is there really like kind of copywriting tips. Do you have any kind of like formula or template or anything like that or is it you know, do you sell too much of (inaudible 19:39.2) stuff.

Brad DeGraw: Here is our best practices and it evolves. So half of the things we talked about today and 6 months from now they are going to be updated processes.

So currently, the title we write for the boss is all about the traffic. So we have our most relevant keywords at the front and without being super technical when you do that you have a great (inaudible 19:59.8) which means the boss loved it.

Those search terms are going to give you the most relevant traffic.

So after your title, you have bullet points and those bullet points are (inaudible 20:09.9). You want to go ahead and sell, sell, sell. It is not just like the futures of the product is wireless. Forget the fact it is wireless. Tell them they are never going to have to get tangled up to the wall. They are going to be able to unplug and do whatever they need to do. Give them the benefit of the benefit. Just ask yourself. You know it as a copywriter. Ask yourself why is that matter. Why did they care. Why should they care and by the time you get to the 5th time of answering it that is what you need to write. The benefit of the benefit.

Also, you need to end with the call to action. It is silly, but when you tell people to buy it, they buy it and 3% increase in conversion just on that little thing there.

So in with your last bullet point is a call to action and the same with your product description.

Forget about what it is. You are really selling who it is for. You are selling people their identity and so talk about their life circumstance when they are feeling like they need to buy and then again, end with a call to action.

Jeremy Reeves: What you just said is beautiful. I hope people pick up and that you are selling like themselves their identity. That is absolutely beautiful. I love that.

So everybody listen to that.

And also real quick before you keep going.

An easy thing from the bullets right, because a lot of people only do the features or they only do the benefits. What I found works really well is doing like kind of a feature, but then you say — so it is like, whatever you know, a purple nozzle right which means and then you go to the benefit you know, which means whatever, it looks beautiful or you know, whatever the benefit is.

Brad DeGraw: Yes. In the benefits as well as creating an infographic. So, because people want to feel like they are educated without actually going to the process of being educated.

And infographics are great for that you know, do your little arrows, your callouts and tell them why that matters to them and why this one is the best one on the planet because it has XYZ.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that and nobody has infographics on Amazon. That is awesome.

Brad DeGraw: So few.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And I always noticed because I actually just saw one — I was buying a green — like a powdered greens thing and by the way, if anybody is not drinking powdered greens in the morning, you definitely should. I know it is a huge difference. Number one, my heartburn, because I suffered from heartburns since I was like 16. Also, like just energy throughout the day you know, it is huge.

But anyway, I noticed — I forgot if it was the one that I bought or not, but when I was looking at a couple of them, the first thing that I looked at was the label right, the design of the product and then the second thing was, I think I picked like 3 of them to kind of compare.

The one with the infographic, I was on significantly longer. Like looking at it you know then the other ones, because the other ones are just bullet, bullet and then the one had an infographic it was gorgeous. It was like showing all the different things you know, it had pictures (inaudible 23:08.3) individual ingredients and I was reading about that one significantly longer you know.

I forgot if I bought that one or not. I definitely look again, but I remember like as you were saying, I kind of get the flashback of being back there.

Brad DeGraw: Yeah (inaudible 23:24.9) make great buying decisions. Like the whole point of the listing is to help people making a quick buying decision towards you.

That is what Amazon does really well is they shortcut the shopping process down to where — I want it. One-click purchase is on the way before you realized, wait, I just bought that thing. That is what Amazon is genius for.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I suffered from that all the time.

So how about you know, one of the huge downfalls with Amazon is that, they do not really give you the customer you know what I mean like you cannot really like synch it with you know, Infusionsoft or whatever you use in for emails and (inaudible 24:06.1).

Do you have any kind of like ninja tricks for getting Amazon customers into — so you can then follow up with them better?

Brad DeGraw: Yes.

Jeremy Reeves: Oh, nice.

Brad DeGraw: Okay, so we have to make sure that we do not compromise the account.

So Amazon allows you to reach out to customers for customer service issues. This is within the terms of service. If you are going out there and saying, hey, buy a cheaper on my website. You are risking your account, your business model can have to shift radically.

So what you do is you make sure every communication has customer service in it. So you can put in product inserts. So on site A, we tell you how to use the best product or how to get the best results from the product and then on the back side of it, we will say, do not forget, you get to join our VIP program for no cost. Here is the link.

Go over here for promos, samples, and special offers. And then as soon as they put their email in and you know, it is just going to be a squeeze page, soon as they put their email in we have a thank you page that says as promised, here is a promo, a special offer, or a sample.

And now you are there. You can (inaudible 25:14.5) so there are happy Amazon customer and there are VIP. So you can do product inserts. You can also — I do not recommend this, this is going to take a lot of time if you are soloproneur, but you can actually reach out to them by phone and just want to make sure you are happy with your order, that is called customer service. You did that.

And then once they are done, (inaudible 25:33.8) yes or no whatever they say, just listen. If they are not happy just give them a refund and hang up the phone. Do not try to (inaudible 25:40.9). Just give them their money back and call it a day.

However, if they are happy, then you can say, oh great, I do not know if you know, some people miss this but you are actually able to join our VIP program and you get special promos and coupons and discounts and offers. If you want, I can send you the link you know, it is in that insert it is just you know, name of our Done.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know, think about — because I saw a lot of high ticket stuff so like think about, if you had, you can use Amazon.

If you have let us just say, you are in — you are selling like a new tropic, right. Do you know what a new tropic is?

Brad DeGraw: Oh yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: So you are selling a new tropic. So if anybody does not know what that means, it is basically a brain pill, right. It is supposed to — it is kind of like the movie, Limitless. It essentially makes your brain work better so you have more concentration and you know, less brain fog that kind of thing.

So let us just say that you have a supplement and you could probably label supplement really easily. You put it on Amazon and then you have some type of high level entrepreneurial coaching program right. Those are the types of people that that product attracts you know what I mean like, when you — like people buying new tropics are just kind of regular (inaudible 26:54.1) you know, working at McDonald’s or whatever. I mean (inaudible 26:56.6) but you know, the majority are you are like a high performance type of situation you know and you need your brain to be you know, working really well all time.

So you can then use that call to then like you have, like an automated webinar selling a high ticket whatever program or service or coaching or whatever it is.

And you know, if you make a 100 calls and you get 2 people on — like 2 sales you know, from each 100 calls for that you know, $2,000 program, well then, it is a very much worth it you know, calling them.

And you know, you just hire a sales person that says you know, hey, you know, call these people and you get a percent you know, so you are not — you are only paying them out of money you made already you know.

So I mean, there are a lot of different ways to do it even if you just have a higher level or higher you know, price product, you know, it does not have to be $2,000, but yeah I mean it is you know, and you can just pay people based on commissions. All you have to do is make a script for them and then there is nothing else you know what I mean.

So it is very easy to make that work and the reason I brought that up is because that is what I tell you know, my audience all the time.

If people are not calling their customers, it is the biggest wasted opportunity in the history of the world you know what I mean.

So I highly recommend if you have something on Amazon, try to figure out a way to make that work because it can be definitely huge you know.

Brad DeGraw: I love phone sales that is my background. So to me, when I get someone on the phone whatever I am selling it is done. So email marketing is great because it scales. Phone is a little bit slower, but once you get good at listening to people and understanding what their real problem, fantasy, and desires, you can close those deals I mean sometimes or half the time depending on you know, how steep your offer is.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And you have to remember they are buyers too you know, even you know, calling a 100 buyers and making 2 sales is probably really low you know what I mean. Depending on the price point you know if you are selling $100,000 program you know, obviously, but yeah, I mean it is you know, you have a good salesman that is doing it for you and not someone that is just going to say, hey you know, buy my stuff, buy my stuff, here is what I need you know.

If you actually have a good salesman that you know, like you said, listens to them and finds out why you know, they are having the problem and what the problem is and then you match that with solution you know, it is done you know.

Brad DeGraw: Yes.

Jeremy Reeves: Any other ways to get them you know, to kind of monetize the buyer?

Brad DeGraw: Those are the 2 easiest one. So you have product insert. So you can just go to (inaudible 29:26.9) print business cards or postcards. Second one is phone. The third one, some smart people nowadays are coming up with some software that can plug it into Facebook.

So yes we have the buyer’s name and phone number.

So Facebook has a nice you know, audience generator. It is not 100% — nothing is a 100%, but there is some software coming out now and it is doing pretty fair where you can grab that information from Amazon and put it into Facebook. I am not a lawyer. I do not know the ethics of whether this is legal or appropriate. There are so many different laws. So follow your moral compass. If this does not feel like something that works for you, do not do it.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and it is really you know, I mean you could do that with email list, so it is really no different, it is just a phone number you know what I mean. It is just kind of the same — you are doing the same thing. I mean people use their email list to build you know, look like audiences and things like that all the time you know what I mean.

Yeah, I love it.

So how about — is there anything that like any kind of you know, do not do that, that Amazon kicks people off for, you know what I mean. So like for example, I know that you cannot put like a thousand links to your website and like you know, push them away from the Amazon experience essentially you know, is there any more stuff like that?

Brad DeGraw: Yeah. There is 1 cardinal rule on Amazon. No customer should ever feel deceived.

So as long as you are not thing that could lead to deception. So if your product does not have batteries and you are showing a picture with the batteries in it. Even if you say, batteries not included with a little star, that could lead to deception.

If anyone thinks that you are deceiving them, you are out. Like you said, if you — you have this great Amazon page which is saying do not buy it here, buy it there. That is deceptive because the whole Amazon experience is to have Amazon grow their customer base. So those are the big ones.

There are some incidence especially depending on your market. If you are in supplements that is kind of a black hat space where a lot of people are not playing by the same rules.

There are people who will — your competition, there is someone out there who will play dirty and they will call Amazon. They will buy the product and then they will call Amazon and say, hey my babies have been born naked it is because of this supplement. I have headaches and nausea and — (inaudible 31:51.7) you know like well, I mean the human body is pretty complex. How are you going to say that your thing is because of my thing. Were you pregnant. Did you drink during the day. Like what your thing.

And that is kind of a gotcha space. So if you are new and you are kind of fragile, you do not want to play with those folks, I stay out of the supplement space.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I have — I do a lot of work in that space and I fully agree. They are going to do anything to make it work.

I do not personally work with people like that, but I work with a lot of companies that really, really like you know, high level companies, but I know they told me stories of things you know. It is the same thing in merchant accounts like they will call and do charge back and they will call and say that they got you know, like dupe into something or there are some kind of a fraud or I mean it is just — it is a rough industry. It is the backstreets of Harlem essentially.

Brad DeGraw: So if you can stay out of those. If you are new and you want to have some success and feel good experience, stay out of those markets. I would stay into pet space or baby products, something where you can make the world a better place and it is maybe a little less crowded.

Jeremy Reeves: And you should be doing that anyway you know.

Brad DeGraw: Exactly.

Jeremy Reeves: You know, it is kind of like anything else. I mean, like the smaller the niches you know, there is kind of like that you know, you are down here and the niche is like really small and but it is really easy to succeed and yeah, maybe you might not turn into a billion company, but the odds of succeeding is huge, whereas, the higher you go, the more potential there is you know, for like a bigger and bigger and bigger business, but it is that much its exponentially harder to actually get to that point you know what I mean.

Brad DeGraw: You nailed it.

Jeremy Reeves: So you have to have something that is like totally just you know, blows everything else out of the water or totally transforming ever you know, like just — like a game changer you know what I mean. An industry disruptor.

But yeah I mean you know, if anybody is interested in doing that I would definitely recommend starting and that is what I am going to do. Like I eventually do it, I might do like kind of a side project you know what I mean maybe if I sell one of my side businesses or something I will replace it with that, but yeah, I mean, I would definitely start with something smaller you know, versus like going into like the health space or something like that.

How about — one last question before we hop off.

How about doing things so like and you might not even focus on this area, but you know, there is like selling the physical products, but then what about things like Kindle you know like selling books or PDFs or things like that you know for Kindle.

Do you have any experience on that area?

Brad DeGraw: Oh yeah. There is a bit of a crossover if you are creative. So the great thing about Kindle books is they are reading them on the screen. So it is easy to get them from this screen, this book, over to anywhere you want.

So you can lead them from Kindle over to your product. You can lead them from Kindle to your squeeze page. The smart, smart marketers are putting Kindle books out with tons of links back to squeeze pages and then now you have a list that is the real (inaudible 34:59.1). You are not going to make much money on the book. And now that list, you can drive them anywhere you want over to your physical product, back over to a more digital products. It totally works.

We did some work for (inaudible 35:11.2) brand and there is a lot of bootlegs out there at cash flow game and some of them are great looking bootlegs, but they are still illegitimate. So what we did is we said, hey Robert, why don’t you just put a 1 page kind of letter telling people how to integrate those lessons into their life so they can improve their lives in their business and we will have this as an exclusive bonus.

We can easily copywrite that letter and anyone who jumps on the listing and said, hey, we are selling this too. They are doing one of two things either fraud because they do not have the letter or copywriting infringement.

Either way it is easier for us to (inaudible 35:49.1).

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is easier to find them. Yeah. Oh, that is awesome. I love that. That is smart.

I am going to think about that even with (inaudible 35:55.7) products and stuff like that because it is you know, as soon as you put something online, it is like all the freakin you know, idiots go and you know, put somewhere you know, but that is the, unfortunately, that is the world we live in.

Well that is — you know, definitely been an interesting conversation for me because I have been personally thinking about it and I know a lot of our audience has also been you know, and plus there are just a lot of entrepreneurs on here that just like the you know, they like to try new things and dabble on new areas and things like that.

The last question that I have for you is, is there any question that I should have ask and I did not or like some kind of point that I missed or anything that you know, if you got off, you would be like, oh I wish the audience knew this you know, is there any kind of last lesson or you know clarifying thought.

Brad DeGraw: Yeah, absolutely. The thing that you might want to think about that did not come up is ask yourself what is this thing or any other thing is. What is the difference between those who are going to succeed and those who are just going to try it and then move on.

So (inaudible 36:55.9) what I found, we teach this all day every day. The people who are successful here are those that make up their mind. They know their outcome and they lean forward. You can still sit down and do this business but if you are sitting on the couch you need to lean forward towards the coffee table and bang this (inaudible 37:10.9) rather than leaning back and get over the Netflix.

So that is the key. That is what I found, is the key to this business and everything else will pursue.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I mean you got to you know, if you are going to try it do not just you know, try for 2 weeks and no, it did not work and just go to the next. Yeah, definitely lean in forward.

Alright. I had a great time chatting you know so everybody again this is Brad DeGraw and Brad, why don’t you tell them you know, if they want to get in touch, I know you have various services for helping people do all this you know, so why don’t you tell people how to get in touch with you if they want to you know, lean forward so to speak.

Brad DeGraw: Excellent. Yeah, just catch up with us on We have a newsletter. We send out every Wednesday. So it is tips, tricks, stories about what is working right now in our business. This week is really, really good newsletter and then yeah, if you guys need help, I am happy to jump on like a 20-minute call either to help you get started or if you are already rolling and you need to take it to the next level just jump on our schedule and I am happy to jump on in one-to-one call.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Hey, well, thanks again. I really appreciate it coming on here.

Brad DeGraw: Excellent. Thanks for having me.


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