If you’ve ever listened to one of my interviews, you know I hold NOTHING back.
This is no exception.
In this brand-new episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery podcast, I am interviewed by Eric Barton. I guarantee this is one of the most value-packed interviews you’ve ever listened to. Here are a few things we discussed…
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery podcast. I hope youâ€™re loving what youâ€™re getting so far. I have a ton more content coming up for you. I wrote out the other day about sixty different ideas. Thatâ€™s not even including interviews, which Iâ€™m going to try to do about once every two weeks or so.
For this podcast, I have something a little bit different for you. In fact, this is the actually the first interview, except the difference is Iâ€™m not going to be interviewing somebody else. Iâ€™m going to be giving you an interview that somebody did for me. Iâ€™m going be getting interviewed.
It was an interview from Eric Barton, from Fast Easy Success. When we talked, we went over a lot of really, really good marketing stuff; including a conversion split test that Iâ€™m currently running. Itâ€™s still running right now, but I guarantee you itâ€™s something youâ€™ve never heard before. Itâ€™s definitely something you want to try because as of right now, itâ€™s winning by about 50 percent over my control. Youâ€™ll see in this interview that the percent doesnâ€™t really matter, but itâ€™s winning right now. I think the comp was about 92 percent.
Here is that episode. I hope you really enjoy it. Let me know what you think.
Eric: Welcome to episode ten of the Fast Easy Success Marketing Insider podcast. I want to thank everyone for tuning into the Fast Easy Success Marketing Insider. A lot of exciting things coming today and in the future for you. Make sure you hit that subscription button right now, so you donâ€™t miss out on the value-packed podcast coming your way as well.
Before we dive into our show and our very special guest today, I just want to welcome everyone to head over to fasteasysuccess.com. Go ahead and grab your business building tips sent directly to your email daily. When you head over to fasteasysuccess.com, Iâ€™m also giving you your free business cheat sheets. This is going to help you with your websites, emails and writing.
Letâ€™s dive in because Iâ€™m excited to have this special guest coming on the show today. If you havenâ€™t discovered this man yet, youâ€™re definitely in for a treat today. Heâ€™s a direct response copywriter who actually specializes in building very profitable sales funnels for clients. You may even have heard this man referred to as the sales funnel specialist, and really the worldâ€™s number one most trust sales funnel authority.
Ladies and gentlemen, joining us today, I want to welcome to the show, Jeremy Reeves. Jeremy, thanks so much for taking the time to jam with us today.
Jeremy: Thanks for having me. Iâ€™m really, really excited. I used to get a little nervous getting interviewed, but Iâ€™m actually very pumped to be talking to you.
Eric: Beautiful. Thatâ€™s what I like to hear. Iâ€™m sure the audience is definitely, they got their ticket to this profitable thrill ride and ready to jump in. Letâ€™s just ask real quick, for the people who are not familiar with you, can you originally tell people how you started out in the sales marketing or copywriting world or how you really go involved?
Jeremy: One thing I want to say, just as everybody is listening at the beginning of the interview, Iâ€™ve listened to a lot of interviews. I listen to a whole bunch of podcasts and all that kind of stuff. Personally, I have never been a huge fan of interviews because a lot of people take too long to tell their stories and donâ€™t really give a lot of good advice, just in general.
I did want to throw out there that I am really going to give out a lot of really, really good content. Itâ€™s not going to be all about me. Iâ€™ll give you my quick little story here for about 30 seconds, but then Iâ€™d like to just jump in. I like to demonstrate my authority by demonstrating that I actually know what Iâ€™m talking about, instead of telling my story.
I just wanted to throw that out there in the beginning. I like to do unique interviews.
Jeremy: For my short little blurb here, I got started as a direct response copywriter, writing sales copy for clients. Right at the beginning of my career with that, which was about, roughly seven years ago, I realized that writing, understanding the dynamics of writing copy and being able to sell on paper and all that good stuff really doesnâ€™t do much if the strategy behind the copy isnâ€™t right.
I really started focusing a lot on the marketing strategy and how to write the copy to fit that strategy. If you have bad strategy with a great copy, itâ€™ll do okay; but if you have incredible strategy and okay copy, it can still do fantastic. The strategy really compels it. When you add the really good, hard-hitting copy on top of it, thatâ€™s when things really take off.
I really started focusing on the marketing strategy behind the copy and that led me down, through working with all kinds of different clients, a lot of the industry leaders that youâ€™re probably familiar with. It really made me specialize and focus on building sales funnels, because I realized a lot of the challenges that people deal with have to do with not having systems in place and not havingâ€”basically, not being able to buy paid traffic; which is one thing I really, really focus on. When you have an automated sales funnel in place, you can pretty much look at your sales funnel as a whole and see, I got 1,000 people that hit the first part of the sales funnel. By the time they got to the end, I made X dollars. You know what each person is worth or your earnings per visitor.
That way you know what you can pay for traffic. If your average earnings per visitor, for each person that you send to a landing page, for example, the first part of the funnel, if thatâ€™s $5, then you know you can pay $2, $3 or $4, whatever you want to keep your margin at, to get new people into the funnel. It really makes your business really, really stable.
Then you keep tweaking and testing and making everybody worth more money. Thatâ€™s where all the fun comes in. Thatâ€™s pretty much my history. Basically, started as a copywriter, went into strategy. I worked with all kinds of different business owners from internet marketers to a couple celebrities and really high name, high profile clients; to even all the way on the other side of the coin, to people like, dry cleaners and hair dressers and people like that. A pretty big gamut of people that Iâ€™ve worked with.
Eric: Right. Thatâ€™s what I was saying, it works with a lot of online and as well as offline. It works with the large and the small businesses. One thing I wanted to ask, itâ€™s been the theme the show, Iâ€™m going to ask it in the beginning, because I think if they set up in the beginning, itâ€™s going to help. This goes into what you were talking about, the paid traffic.
Really what Iâ€™m referring to is the un-sexy sales secret, which is what I call it, is lead generation. I think, unfortunately, this is a point that a lot of business owners get wrong. A lot of people mix up with lead generation with customer generation. A lot of times they want customers instead of leads. Leads are something that you nurture. You can grab the low hanging fruit, obviously, but itâ€™s something you have to build.
Can you share your thoughts or whatâ€™s your view on the lead generation part of whether theyâ€™re starting a funnel or just bringing them to a sales page or website et cetera?
Jeremy: Yeah. Thereâ€™s a lot to go into on that. Iâ€™ll just take when Iâ€™m working with clients, Iâ€™ll go off of that. One of the things that I try to do, a lot of people talk about cost per lead and things like that. Thatâ€™s good â€¦
Jeremy: No, itâ€™s definitely good to know and I track that metric and all that, but thereâ€™s a big difference in the quality of leads. Letâ€™s just say you have Facebook ads, Google ads and SEO, you’re doing those three things. You might have leads that are worth, letâ€™s say your average lead on Google AdWords is worth $3. It might be worth only $1 on Facebook and $6 for SEO.
You really have to look at, Iâ€™m getting this amount of leads from this source, but what are they worth to the business? Because everything, the leads coming in, they all have different values.
Eric: Thatâ€™s a great point. I think thatâ€™s what a lot of people mix up too. Theyâ€™re getting in a lot of leads, and theyâ€™re like, yeah, Iâ€™m doing good. But how much is that lead actually worth, like you just said. Thatâ€™s a great point.
Jeremy: Exactly. You could even dive in more. For example, I have Facebook campaign that Iâ€™m running right now. We tag them as Facebook leads and I can track it overall and look at it every month and say, weâ€™ve got 1,000 leads this month and we made $3,000 from that. We spent $1,500, whatever the numbers are.
If you want to even take it to another level, you can tag them by the audience that youâ€™re targeting. For example, letâ€™s just say youâ€™re in health and you’re targeting men, 50 plus, and then another group is women, 30 plus, whatever. It could be anything that youâ€™re targeting. You can actually tag them as that, and then track those specific things; so you know, not only do you know how much your average Facebook lead is worth, but you could also say, I have these two segments that weâ€™re targeting. This one is worth this much; this one is worth this much. You can get pretty crazy with the metrics.
I usually recommend that for people that are really advanced and trying to take it to a completely new level and gains a huge competitive advantage. That particular one is more for people that are a lot more advanced.
Eric: Itâ€™s a little more work. Itâ€™s more profitable, but it is more work. If itâ€™s something that competition isnâ€™t really willing to do, thatâ€™s a good thing for people in our world.
This can go into the testing, too, because thatâ€™s something that youâ€™re definitely known for is heavy testing. Do you do the simple split, like A, B, split test or really how do you start your test? Whatâ€™s the best way you start testing where people can do that?
Jeremy: Thatâ€™s a good question. I get extremely mad at a lot of people in the conversion rate optimization field. That was one thing that probably last year, it might have even been 2012. In the last two years, I was really heavily involved in that. I got offered a really healthy, six figure offer by one of the biggest conversion rate optimization companies in the world and turned that down. Iâ€™m still really friends with them. I just donâ€™t want a job.
Thereâ€™s so much I can go into here. Thereâ€™s a lot of things that you need to look out for when you test. One of the things youâ€™ll hearâ€”and Iâ€™m not going to give out any names here, because I donâ€™t like to make enemies. A lot of people when they say, â€œWe got an 80 percent increase doing this.â€ â€œWe got a 60 percent increase doing that.â€ If you look at the actual stats and sometimes theyâ€™ll show you in a video, theyâ€™ll show you a screen shot of their stats and all that. A lot of times youâ€™ll notice that the numbers are really small.
Maybe they hit 95 percent confidence. If youâ€™re familiar with testing, youâ€™ll know what I mean, but itâ€™s essentially 95 percent chance of that test being a winner. It doesnâ€™t mean that you have a 95 percent chance of that test winning by that percentage. For example, let me pull up a test I have running right now for a Facebook campaign. Itâ€™s running to a landing page.
The one call to action on there is â€œgive me my free report.â€ Itâ€™s the control, call to action. The one Iâ€™m testing it against is â€œshow me your sales funnel secrets.â€ Thatâ€™s the A, B test. They get split up.
Jeremy: Let me go to my results. It just became a winner this morning. The control, which wasâ€”I forget it already. The control, which was â€œget instant access,â€ I think it was, is converting at 24 percent and the â€œshow me your sales funnel secretsâ€ is converting at 39.68 percent.
This is a fairly new test. Itâ€™s only been up a day or two. The percentage improvement is 65.34 percent. A lot of times youâ€™ll see a lot of experts showing that, â€œHey, I got a 65 percent improvement,â€ and they pretend theyâ€™re big, they know everything about split testing and all that. This one, by the way, has a 98 percent chance to beat the original.
Eric: 98 percent, nice.
Jeremy: Whatâ€™s that?
Eric: I said, 98 percent?
Jeremy: Yeah, 98 percent.
Jeremy: This one is a winner, right? What a lot of people wonâ€™t tell youâ€”and this is something thatâ€™s really, really important to understandâ€”is that, right now it has a 65 percentage improvement, but itâ€™s everything always comes back to the norm. Even though itâ€™s a winner, as more conversion data comes inâ€”this is only based off, I have 43 conversions total.
As I get up to 100, 200, 300 conversions and thereâ€™s more data, that percentage of improvement is going to come down and get closer to the median or closer to normal, where it would be even.
Jeremy: Basically, the thing to take away is that when people tell you, â€œWe did X and we doubled our results.â€ Donâ€™t listen to the percentage that they tell you, just get the idea. The idea, for my example, so you guys can test this, is test something normal that you would normally use; â€œget instant access,â€ â€œget free report now,â€ whatever is, versus something thatâ€™s a little bit more like a more novel, more â€œshow me your sales funnel secrets.â€ Itâ€™s not something they see every day.
Test that, but donâ€™t look at theâ€”when conversion rates experts tell you the numbers, donâ€™t really pay attention to any of that. Just pay attention to what the strategy behind it was, and then do your own testing. Mine is 65 percent now. Iâ€™m going to let it run a week and after that, it might only be 30 percent or it might be 20 percent. It should still be a winner. Itâ€™s just that the percentage of an improvement is the one thing thatâ€”basically, donâ€™t get too excited about it.
Eric: Do you have any advice on how long they should let a test run?
Is there a certain amount of views or clicks you should let a test, on average, run?
Jeremy: Thatâ€™s a good question. It really depends on a couple factors. What I usually do is look for at least 30 conversions for each of the variations. If you have two variations, wait until you get at least 30 to 50 conversions on each of them. You also always want to make sure that you do it for at least a week, so it can go through. Youâ€™ll find that out that some days convert a lot higher than other days. If you really dig into the data, weekends might do really bad or really good or whatever, so thatâ€™s the second thing.
I use Visual Website Optimizer. Any split testing software you use is going to give you a chance to beat the original. You always want that to be above 95 percent. A little bit of a caveat to that is that if you have a business and you donâ€™t have a lot of conversions, it takes you awhile. Itâ€™s really just a percentage game. Itâ€™s just a chance that you have. Itâ€™s a very high probable chance.
This one, for example, has a 98 percent chance to beat the original. That doesnâ€™t mean that itâ€™s absolutely going to beat the original. It means that I have a 2 percent of that actually losing. Donâ€™t think of testing as a definite thing. Think of it is as, this is the most likely scenario. If you’re testing and you donâ€™t have a lot of data, if it takes you three months to get one test done, just go with whatever youâ€™re comfortable with.
If you get up to 90 percent chance to beat the original, then go with that. Just go with whatever. I usually recommend 95, but you also have to look at the time factor and the time cost too.
Eric: Thatâ€™s true.
Jeremy: Thatâ€™s just a couple things to think about.
Eric: Letâ€™s say you had that definite winner, and that Facebook button was the winner for you, the submit button; would you challenge that to another test then? Do you say, lesson learned for now, thatâ€™s the winner. Iâ€™ll let that go and move onto the next thing I want to test, whether it be a website or something else.
Jeremy: Thatâ€™s another good question. What Iâ€™ll do is this is a winner, has a couple days left. Whenever a week is over, if itâ€™s still a winner, on the page, Iâ€™ll change it to the winner. At that point, Iâ€™m trying to think. I will probably, on this landing page, I will, I actually might do a little bit more of a big test. The landing page right now is all text based, so I actually might go to an all text, to just a video and an opt-in form, something big like that.
Pretty much, when it comes to figuring out what to test next, I look for the things on the page that are going to make the biggest improvements; so going from an all text to all video. The call to action button, believe it or not, itâ€™s a big factor.
Eric: No, it is. I think a lot of people miss that. When I changed my opt-in on my site, I tested it all that time. Just simple changing of words can make a huge, dramaticâ€”a perfect example, my Facebook fan page, a client had something like â€œsend my email here.â€ We changed it to a simple, â€œgive me the info.â€
It dramatically increased the opt-in that same day. We let it run and thatâ€™s what weâ€™ve been using, but just simple, like you said could be huge. A lot of people drop the ball on the simple stuff.
Jeremy: Yeah. It really can, especially, the shorter the page, the more thatâ€™s going to have an effect. If you have a 15 page long sales letter, doing â€œadd to cartâ€ versus â€œbuy nowâ€ probably wonâ€™t make a huge difference, but if you have just a quick little landing page, then it can make a huge difference.
Jeremy: Even with that, another cool little thing to try just to get peopleâ€™s minds, get it creative and going a little crazy, is one of the thingsâ€”and I might do this for my next test, Iâ€™m not sure. Iâ€™m excited about the idea because I donâ€™t remember seeing it before. Youâ€™re going to get an exclusive idea here.
What Iâ€™m going to test now is â€œshow me your sales funnel secretsâ€ versus a big, huge call to action button that essentially has 30 or 40 words in it. Itâ€™s like, â€œGive me your secret that youâ€™ve invested or that youâ€™ve got over a million dollars worth of testing research under your belt. This is what you came up with;â€ something really, really long.
Eric: Oh, nice, like a direct response order form button or kind of like â€œYes, Eric, Iâ€™m ready to invest.â€
Jeremy: Yeah. Something like that, but in a button form on a regular landing page.
Jeremy: To be honest, I have no idea if itâ€™s going to work or not. It might bomb horribly. I have no idea. Iâ€™ve never seen that done before, so Iâ€™m going to do it. I, personally, think that itâ€™s going to work, just because you have to read every word of that. Nobodyâ€™s ever seen that before, so the novelty of it, the newness and uniqueness of it. As soon as people hit that page, how do you not read that?
Eric: Right. Thatâ€™s going to be a button form, kind of thing, where they push it?
Eric: Yeah. I havenâ€™t seen that done. Definitely let me know how that works out for you. Thatâ€™s going to be interesting.
Jeremy: Iâ€™m excited.
Eric: Thatâ€™s nice. I know what weâ€™re talking about is once youâ€™re doing the testing, theyâ€™ve come to your page or theyâ€™ve opted in. This is the thing, like you said, too, that you really work with clients with this, is building their sales funnels.
If we could maybe dive into a little bit about how business owners can go out and find the holes currently in their funnels or if theyâ€™re starting out, how they can get that process at least started, to make it profitable from the jump.
Jeremy: Iâ€™ll take that in two different ways. If youâ€™re just starting up, what you want to do isâ€”Iâ€™m going to try to make it as generally applicable to everybody listening. When youâ€™re just starting up, letâ€™s say that your order process is, somebody comes into your website, they buy and they get the thank you email saying, â€œYour order was successful,â€ and thatâ€™s it. Itâ€™s not really even a sales funnel, but itâ€™s a way to get them in, I guess.
What you want to do and most basic thing that I always try to get people to do is, number one, give away some type of value added thing. It could be a free report, a video, anything that gives value to the people that youâ€™re trying to serve, to get them to essentially raise their hand and say, â€œHey, Iâ€™m interested in what youâ€™re selling.â€ You put them onto a prospect auto responder list. The point of that is to sell them your main product, whatever that is.
After they buy your main product, you should haveâ€”Iâ€™m trying to think of a minimum here. I would say probably at least two other, either products or services. One thing is I always try to tell people, if you’re a service business, make sure you have product. If youâ€™re a product business, make sure you have services.
Itâ€™s really the only way to maximize your funnel and really find those hyper buyers in your list that are going to pay you for anything that you come out with.
Eric: Thatâ€™s a great point. Can I ask on a sidetrack, but related.
Do you find that a lot of clients come to you from your products that you release or vice versa, they become your clients and then go after your products?
Jeremy: Both actually. A pretty huge percentage of clients will buy a product, and then I hear from them three days later. Itâ€™s usually along those lines, for me personally. I mean, itâ€™s different for everybody. My services are really expensive, in the four and five figures, so people want to make sure that I know what Iâ€™m talking about.
Iâ€™ll get a lot of emails that say, â€œHey, Jeremy, I just bought X product. Didnâ€™t even go through it. I just wanted to make sure you were the real deal and you actually did what you said you did. Thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m writing to you now and I want to talk about hiring you.â€ I get those emails all the time because Iâ€™m the sales funnel guy and people want to go through my process, and say, â€œLetâ€™s see if the sales funnel guy has his own sales funnel.â€
Eric: Yeah. See if heâ€™s just preaching there, exactly.
Jeremy: I get a lot of those emails. I also get a lot of people that come in and they become clients or coaching students or whatever, and they want to learn more. These are mostly the business owners that they really love to learn. They just canâ€™t get enough information, so theyâ€™ll be working with me as theyâ€™re going through my products.
Eric: Right. Those are the best kind of clients, absolutely.
Jeremy: Yeah. Itâ€™s kind of both.
Eric: Nice. Sorry about that. I didnâ€™t mean to get you sidetracked. I thought it was important to throw that out to the audiences that are trying to get some products. Thatâ€™s a good way to bring in business as well.
Jeremy: For everybody that has a service business. Iâ€™m doing this Facebook campaign. Itâ€™s giving away a free report, getting them into my funnel. I just had somebody, I think it was yesterday, where I looked at theirâ€”I like to look at theâ€”I have office autopilot, I can see, somebody opted in for this and went to this page, and they filled out this form, so I can see the whole process of everything they did. Yeah, itâ€™s pretty cool. It essentially tracks all the pages, and you can see the whole process that they went through.
This happens all the time. This one is just one example. They opted in. Theyâ€™re from Facebook, so they never heard of me before. They opted into the same landing page that Iâ€™ve been talking about. Three minutes after that, they went to my services page and read my service about building sales funnels and opted into that. They became a coaching prospect, I guess you could say, or a client prospect.
Itâ€™s pretty cool. You get ancillary benefits of doing a lot of traffic. You should factor that in, by the way, to when youâ€™re buying paid traffic. Thereâ€™s always that little side shoe. If you’re selling products, thereâ€™s always a certain number of people that are going invest in your services and other products and things like that.
Jeremy: I forget where I was going with that.
Eric: Iâ€™m sorry. I threw you off. We were talking about, basically, with everything, thatâ€™s part of the funnel process obviously. Letâ€™s say someone has an auto responder set up, someone has a product or services; is there common holes that youâ€™ve found with clients that are maybe just leaking profits for them or something they could do to plug those holes up real quick?
Jeremy: Yeah. Thatâ€™s an interesting one. Holes in their funnels? It usually has to do with the frequency of communication. What that means is, essentially, a lot of peopleâ€”and I mean, by a lot of people, I mean probably 90 plus percent of entrepreneursâ€”theyâ€™re kind of afraid of communicate with their prospects. Personally, I have a hard time understanding this. It might just be for me.
I kind of got my chops reading J. Abraham and strategy preeminence where everything is just, you just start the relationship by adding value. That might be the reason for that. Everything I do, it starts with value. I donâ€™t ever, ever expect anybody to do business with me before me providing them value first.
The thing with communication is people are afraid theyâ€™re going to annoy their lists. Itâ€™s kind of bogus because they wouldnâ€™t be doing business with you, they wonâ€™t be on your list unless they wanted to hear from you. If you have a weight loss website or if you’re a dentist and somebody signs up for your newsletter or whatever. They did that. Itâ€™s not like somebody is holding a gun to their head and they made them sign up for the newsletter.
They did that because they want to hear from you. They want to hear about you, about what you do about how you can help them. About how you helped other people. To see you demonstrate your expertise so they can make a decision whether they should go with you or somebody else.
The biggest hole when you’re building your funnel is, make sure that you’re communicating with your prospects as much as you possibly can. That includes auto responder sequences. It includes retargeting campaign, people who saw certain pages and didnâ€™t buy what you have. You follow up with them with banners or Facebook ads, doing retargeting. You can do direct mail, emails, postcard, text messages, voice mails. Thereâ€™s all kinds of stuff, but make sure that you are communicating with them frequently. Along with that, getting them in as risk free as possible.
Usually start with whatever your lowest price product or service is and offer them that, get them into the buying cycle. It gets them used to spending money with you and then just constantly working on taking them up the ladder. Letâ€™s just say right now you have a $37 product and a service thatâ€™s $97 a month, just for an example. Once you start getting people that are going to that $97 a month product or service, you should be thinking, what else? How can I add more value to these people and charge a higher price?
Usually, thatâ€™s a â€œdone for youâ€ thing, or more of a step-by-step process. Coaching, you can do coaching in almost any business. Any business that you have. You want to make things faster or easier for people, and then get creative. Think of new products, new services, that you can charge more money for because thereâ€™s just a lot of people.
Thereâ€™s a certain percentage in every audience that will spend several times more money with you than youâ€™re currently offering them. Thatâ€™s a huge hole that I find in almost everybodyâ€™s funnel. They donâ€™t have enough high priced, high ticket items. It really makes a huge, huge difference. If youâ€™re selling $37 products and you have a $5,000 product, you only have to sellâ€”or letâ€™s just say for easy math, a $30 product and a $6,000 really high ticket thing. You have to sell 200 of the $30 products, for one of the $6,000 sales.
Jeremy: If youâ€™re selling 200 a month, youâ€™re making $6,000 a month. You add in a $6,000 product and you sell one of those to one out of every 200 people, youâ€™ve just doubled your business. Itâ€™s really, really important to have those high priced, high ticket offers in there. It really can do some pretty amazing things to your bottom line.
A lot of times, if they are services or something like that, theyâ€™re higher profit too. Your profit margin is, typically at least, if itâ€™s one-on-one coaching or something like that. Your profit margin is pretty huge.
Eric: Right. Are you a big fan of the marketing ladder? Say, moving people up from the $39 e-book or product all the way up to the â€œdone for youâ€ services, et cetera?
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. I actually have tomorrow and Friday, weâ€™re recording this on a Wednesday, tomorrow, Thursday and Friday, I have back-to-back in-person, full day consultations with a client.
Jeremy: Itâ€™s $3,000 a day, so itâ€™s $6,000 in two days. Thatâ€™s essentially, for me, an upsell from my typical monthly coaching program. Itâ€™s essentially doing several months in advance, doing it in one or two days. Itâ€™s a way to do everything faster for people. Itâ€™s very, very profitable doing that.
Definitely, because people want to spend more money with you, itâ€™s just a matter of showing them the value. It really all comes back down to value. I could go out there and have $100,000 coaching program, but if I canâ€™t show people that theyâ€™re going to make $500,000 or $1 million, then nobody is going to buy it. You have to find out how much value you can provide to people and then charge accordingly.
Eric: That makes sense. I guess what you said before, and I wanted to ask you about this, I know youâ€™ve said before the truth about price; what the main reason people really buy your product or services is?
Jeremy: Yeah. A lot of people think that people buy based off price. In some cases, itâ€™s true. Sometimes people literally just donâ€™t have the money to pay you. I was talking to someone who desperately wanted to join my coaching program, but she couldnâ€™t afford it because she was going month to month and she could barely even put food on the table.
I was like, â€œListen, donâ€™t even.â€ She wanted to join, sheâ€™s like, â€œNo, no, Iâ€™ll sell something,â€ or whatever. I said, â€œListen, Iâ€™m not comfortable enough. If this doesnâ€™t work, you literally canâ€™t feed yourself. I just canâ€™t live with that.â€ I guess thatâ€™s a good demonstration of my sales funnel selling her on my coaching program. Itâ€™s the same way with your sales funnel. You want to make sure that people understand the value that youâ€™re providing them. Thatâ€™s what it really comes down to.
In most cases, like in 90 percent of cases, itâ€™s not that something is too expensive. Itâ€™s that they donâ€™t see that the value youâ€™re providing is more than the prices theyâ€™re paying. If you’re offering, weâ€™ll go to health, just because itâ€™s easy and itâ€™s relatable. Say itâ€™s $97. If you donâ€™t show the value is worth more than $97, then people arenâ€™t going to buy. Whereas, if you show them that its worth $197, $297, $997, whatever it is, then people are more likely to buy on the higher you show that value, then the bigger gap between your price and the value.
Obviously, with the value being higher, the higher your sales are going to be. Thatâ€™s what copywriters do is, essentially, bring out that value and show the benefits and overcome the objections. Thatâ€™s why operating it is so important, because when you really boil it down, thatâ€™s what weâ€™re doing, is bringing out and showing people why theyâ€™re paying X dollars, but the value is X dollars times five, ten or twenty or whatever.
Eric: Yeah. Like youâ€™re saying, it doesnâ€™t really have to be what youâ€™re adding to it, you just have to raise the perceived value and that will raise the prices. Maybe a tip you give someone to raise the perceived value without adding more to their product or service or their widget?
Jeremy: Yeah. Thatâ€™s a good question. First of all, before I even get into that, raising your prices is probably the best and fastest way to grow your business.
Jeremy: I wish I could just get paid for saying, â€œRaise your price.â€ Because you can go into a million dollar business and say, â€œRaise your price ten percent,â€ and they can increase their profit by $100,000. If your margins are low, the lower your profit margin, the more you raise your price, the higher that multiple is. I canâ€™t really do any examples off the top of my head because thereâ€™s a lot of math involved.
Just basically, before I get into how to raise your perceived value so you can raise prices, make it a point to do a split test and raise your prices. If youâ€™re nervous about it, I know a lot of people are, thatâ€™s totally fine. If youâ€™ve never done it before, donâ€™t be worried about being nervous about. Do it at 5 percent or 10 percent or something like that. If you think about it, if youâ€™re selling something for $897 and you go to $997, thatâ€™s ten percent higher.
People really arenâ€™t going to notice that difference. If you go from $9 to $9.90, that would be 10 percent. People arenâ€™t going to notice that. If you want to do that, number one, is if you can just price test and see if people will pay a higher price. A lot of times youâ€™ll see that you can go up to 20 percent without changing anything about the offer and your conversions stay the same.
Sometimes, not too often, but sometimes youâ€™ll actually increase your conversions because sometimes people, if you have too much value and your price is too low, itâ€™s actually one of those scenarios, where people are like, â€œThat canâ€™t be real. There must be something about this. Thatâ€™s just wrong.â€
Eric: Thatâ€™s a great point. That happens all the time because speaking in the marketing ladder a lot of times with a client Iâ€™ll do an SEO. From there, go onto the marketing and the copywriting because they need that afterwards, before or during. A lot of clients, a lot of packages, the price, they just couldnâ€™t believe thatâ€™s what I was offering.
I had a lot of skeptical people because they were coming from other companies that had ripped them off or had bad experiences with them. Thatâ€™s a great point, sometimes people just donâ€™t believe it if it sounds too good to be true.
Jeremy: Yeah, people are skeptical. You kind of have to think as a consumer. Take your mind out of being a business owner. As a consumer, you have this natural sense of what a price should be. You can probably look at things and just line ten items up. You could probably get within 20 or 30 percent of that actually price, just by guessing at what the price would be.
We kind of just have that internal filter of what a price should be. If youâ€™re out of that range, peopleâ€™s flags go up and theyâ€™re like, â€œWait, something is not right here.â€ They get that gut feeling that just something is just not adding up. The conclusion they come to is, â€œWell, they must be lying.â€
Jeremy: Going back to the raising perceived value. Thereâ€™s a lot of different ways to do it. Number one is improve your copy. If you’re trying to do the copy yourself, hire a good copywriter, not somebody from elance or not somebody for $500 for a sales letter; unless youâ€™re just starting and you really just donâ€™t have money. Itâ€™s better than nothing.
If you have a relatively successful business, number one, is hiring a copywriter or learning copy yourself. Then get some courses and learn how to write really good copy because, like I said, you learn to overcome objections. You learn to gain attention from people. You learn to develop interests and get them engaged in the copy to really showcase the benefits of your product or service. Number one is write better copy.
Number two, is show your personality. Thatâ€™s actually one thing that most people donâ€™t really think of, but Iâ€™ve made a big, big shift in the last year, because I see a huge trend in going towards personality and transparency. If you follow my emails, youâ€™ll see how personal I am. Iâ€™m always telling stories about my wife and my kids and stupid things that Iâ€™m doing, like last weekend I jumped into an ice pond for a polar plunge. It was for charity. I like to talk about that.
One guy actually wrote back and told me I had a death wish. It was fun, talking about that stuff. Itâ€™s just me being me. You canâ€™t be fake anymore. You have to just be whoever you are. If youâ€™re a big flamboyant really off the wall character, and you’re really loud and obnoxious, then just be that. If youâ€™re kind of quiet, shy and reserved, be that person. You canâ€™t really fake it anymore with social media and all that kind of stuff. Number two is be yourself.
Usually thatâ€™s done either through emails or videos. In case you’re wondering in your head, â€œWait how does that increase perceived value of your product or service?â€ That really doesnâ€™t increase the value of the product or service. It increases the value of you and the relationship that they have with you.
It all starts with a relationship. They have to trust you if you’re selling something. If they donâ€™t trust you, you could be giving away bars of gold for $1 and nobody is going to buy it, because they think youâ€™re lying. Thatâ€™s number two is build trust by being yourself, being personal, telling stories, and that kind of thing.
Another thing you could do is add bonuses. Add whatever your product is, whatever your service, add little extras, little bonuses. If you’re selling an information product, you can have bonuses on little extra videos or how to get faster results; how to get better results with this certain technique or whatever. Thatâ€™s one that probably most people know.
Another thing, make it better risk reversal. Have better guarantees. You could have longer guarantees. You could have conditional guarantees, like a money back guarantee if they can prove that they went through your program or did your service or whatever and they didnâ€™t get the results, then they can double you money back guarantee; something that takes the risk off that person and puts it on you.
Another thing you can do is establishâ€”juxtapose your product or service with somebody with an industry leader that they already trust. You can kind of borrow that credibility. For example, you have a course and you’re selling information. It really doesnâ€™t matter. It could be a service, course, whatever it is.
If you somehow involve either something in your industry or a celebrity or somebody like that and you kind of juxtapose, which essentially means you tie it into your product, then that increases the value because you get that borrowed credibility. Those are a couple ways to help increase your perceived value.
The easiest way is probably better copy, I would say.
Eric: Right. I agree. I always say this, but I think copy marketing and sales are the most important skills. The better the marketing, the easier the sales process and copywriting and salesmanship tie together.
Jeremy: Yeah. Absolutely.
Eric: Nice. One thing I want to ask you, not only to provide value for the audience, but selfishly, as well, I guess I should say. Iâ€™m coming out with a new course here. This is about product launching. Is there steps that you, personally, do when you work with clients or start off your launches on the right track? Is there something that you could do or suggest to people?
Jeremy: Iâ€™ll let you take most of the credit for the product launch stuff. I donâ€™t want to jump on your toes too much. Iâ€™ll give one recommendation that reverberates through the whole product launch sequence, and that is, proof. Proof is just everything.
When I was launching the funnel formula, which is my flagship product that teaches you how to build sales funnels. When I did that launch to my own list, I didnâ€™t do affiliates and all that kinds of stuff. Thatâ€™s just too annoying for me. One of the things, I just focused on proof, proof, proof.
Every single email that went out, every piece of communication that went out had some type, at least one piece of proof in it; whether it was a result that I got for a client, whether it was case study from a client, or an example of what happened when a client or me built the sales funnel or added a piece of the sales funnel. Telling them things they didnâ€™t know, like, â€œHey, in module three, thereâ€™s a really cool tip that letâ€™s you do X.â€ Thatâ€™s a style of proof, everywhere from there or telling about my past results.
I did something that I was a little bit nervous of, but during my launch, and it really only works for selling to marketing people. Iâ€™ll give you an example of how you can use it in another niche. What I did was during my launch, I did itâ€”I canâ€™t even remember the dates. It might have been Monday through Friday, I forget.
Throughout the week, I was telling my audience and giving them proof on how sales funnels worked, based on giving them numbers of my own sales funnel and how that launch was going.
Eric: Nice, so a play-by-play of your launch.
Jeremy: Exactly. I had screenshots. I said, â€œHey, look, I would have made X dollars if I didnâ€™t have this sales funnel in place.â€ I didnâ€™t actually say dollars, I just did percentage. It was something like, â€œI made an extra,â€ I forgot what it turned out to be. It was something like, 33 percent of my sales were from selling the main product, and 66 percent of my sales came from the sales funnel, after they bought that first product.
I said, â€œLook, I would have been leaving 66 percent of the money I made on the table if I didnâ€™t have this sales funnel.â€ That was huge. I actually showed even more proof. I showed a screenshot from inside my office autopilot, which is my CRM, so they could see what I was talking about.
One thing that you can do, letâ€™s just go back to weight loss. That one is easy. If youâ€™re selling a weight loss course, you can say, maybe you did a two week launch. You could say, â€œSomebody bought this on the first day, four days later, theyâ€™re already down eight pounds. This other person bought it and within two days, they were down five pounds.â€
Throughout the launch, you can talk about the results that people are getting since the launch started, results that people have done in the past. You could even do things like with scarcity, with deadlines and scarcity. Saying, â€œWe only have 50 left and there are 20,000 people waiting on the list. Theyâ€™re waiting for the cart to open. Make sure you get there as soon as I tell you itâ€™s open, because thereâ€™s going to be 20,000 people that are going to buy this product.â€
You can do scarcity like that. Make sure you donâ€™t lie. I hate when people lie in marketing.
Eric: Thatâ€™s a good point. My last course I did that too. It was a higher price course. What I did with the list that was on the list for that course was scarcity and social proof. I would literally list the people. I would say, â€œJason from California invested today.â€ I listed the peopleâ€™s first name and the state they were from of who invested that day during that launch process as social proof as well.
I never really tested that, to be honest with you, against not doing that. When I did that, the results seemed to be more dramatic then when I did this before without doing that added factor.
Jeremy: Thatâ€™s one of those things that itâ€™s a given that itâ€™s going to do better. Hopefully, that helps with product launches.
Eric: Nice. Thatâ€™s beautiful. Just to clarify, I donâ€™t know if you misunderstood. My course, it has nothing to do with product launches, but as this launched a new course or product. I know you actually worked with that, but my audience at the end, weâ€™ll give out Jeremyâ€™s website at the end. If you do have a product launch, you can talk to Jeremy as well.
Jeremy: I thought you were having a course about product launches?
Eric: No. Itâ€™s going to be a full marketing strategy, sales copy, the good stuff. Before we wrap it up today, because you shared a lot of good value and I definitely want to thank you for coming on.
I know a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs listening may have a continuity service or maybe a continuity or monthly program, or maybe theyâ€™re even thinking about starting one, which could be very profitable. Can you share a tip or two before we leave today on how they can increase their retention rates? Some way to make their customers stick with them longer.
Jeremy: Yeah. Let me throw out three different things. Number one is one of the things that I really love to do. Again, everything all goes back to value. As soon as they buy something, this is especially true with a continuity program, but itâ€™s also true with any service, any product. I put people into what I call a â€œpersonal coach campaign.â€
Somebody buys one of my products and for the next, roughly 30 days, it depends, but roughly 30 days; they get emails specifically based on that product. The point of that is to get them to consume the product, not eat the product, you know, consume the product.
Jeremy: I guess it could be to eat the product, if youâ€™re selling some kind of food.
Eric: Thatâ€™s awesome. Thatâ€™s motivating them at the same time you’re there for them, right, supporting them?
Jeremy: Yeah. Thereâ€™s a couple things that it does. It establishes a relationship with them. You already have a relationship with them because they trust you enough to buy your product. A lot of people have buyerâ€™s remorse. Theyâ€™re kind of like, â€œOh, God, I shouldnâ€™t have bought it. Now Iâ€™m going to have to return this.â€ They think that a lot of business owners donâ€™t care. Theyâ€™re just in it for the sale.
If you have a full 30 days of emails or could be a mix of emails, videos, whatever you want to do with it, the media. It really shows people that you care about them. You should care about them, regardless if it increases retention rates or anything like that. You should do this anyway because you care about your customers.
The side benefit is that it increase retention rates, reduces refunds, because it establishes and builds that relationship. It all comes down to value and relationship. Thatâ€™s one thing that, everything revolves around that. Thatâ€™s one thing is to have a personal coach campaign. Itâ€™s just easy. They could be quick, just to say, â€œI really appreciate that you bought it. I want you to know that Iâ€™m here for you. I actually care about you and hope that you get the results that youâ€™re looking for.â€
Itâ€™s not just like, â€œHey, thanks for your money. See ya,â€ and you never talk to them again; which is what most people do. Itâ€™s rare that I get emails, maybe out of all the product Iâ€™ve ever bought in my entire life, I could probably count on one hand how many campaigns like that that Iâ€™ve ever gotten. You stick out like crazy, if you do that.
Jeremy: Number two â€¦ Iâ€™m sorry.
Eric: I just said thatâ€™s great. Thatâ€™s fantastic. I havenâ€™t seen, like you said, Iâ€™ve really never seen it. I canâ€™t think of any product or service that Iâ€™ve bought where thereâ€™s been an ongoing campaign like that.
Jeremy: Yeah. For some people, itâ€™s that they really donâ€™t care. They just want your money. For others, they just havenâ€™t thought about it yet.
The second thing is send out some type of email. It could be anything. It could be a salesman calling them, a customer support person. It could be a postcard, letter, text message, whatever media you want to use. Essentially, do a stick letter. In direct mail, they do stick letter. That is kind of close to a personal coach campaign, but itâ€™s just one piece, where you just thank them for the order.
If thereâ€™s any membership details, you can put that in there. Just reassure them that it was a good purchase. Theyâ€™re going to get value out of it. maybe add a little tip in there to help them get more value out of whatever they just bought, and then sell them another product.
Eric: Absolutely. Thatâ€™s a fabulous way to get your back end going.
Jeremy: Yeah. The product should be, if youâ€™re selling a supplement for, letâ€™s just go back to weight loss again. If youâ€™re selling something for weight loss, you canâ€™t sell them a supplement for getting rid of toe fungus or something like that, because thereâ€™s no congruency there. Whatever it is, it has to be really congruent, and really make sense to add more value to take whatever results theyâ€™re going to get and take them to a new level. Thatâ€™s the second one, send a stick letter.
The third one, I just had it in my mind. The first one is the personal coach campaign. The second one is a stick letter. Third one, another thing you can do for retention rates is get peopleâ€”this is kind of a mental type of thing. Get people to give you testimonials. You may not have really heard this before, Iâ€™m not sure. If you can get somebody to give you a testimonial and cement that idea in their mind that they love this product, itâ€™s helping them.
Who do you know thatâ€™s going to give somebody a testimonial and ask for a refund? Know what I mean? You can do this in your personal coaching campaign. If you do a campaign and get them to commit to doing business with you and to admit that youâ€™re helping them and youâ€™re doing a good job for them, theyâ€™re probably not going to ask for a refund. Theyâ€™re going to stay with you longer.
A fourth bonus thing that goes in with the stick letter is keep selling them additional products. Keep selling them additional services, because as they go down the rabbit hole with you, theyâ€™re going to get more attached to doing business with you. The more they spend with you, the less likely they are to ever leave you because youâ€™re now their knight in shining armor thatâ€™s helping them fix whatever problem their trying to solve.
Eric: Fantastic. Absolutely. Thatâ€™s great. This has been awesome, Jeremy. I definitely want to thank you. You shared a lot of fantastic value, great value share here. I want to thank you for coming on the tenth episode here of The Fast Easy Success Marketing Insider.
Before everyone goes out and dives in on all the tips and takes action on everything we talked about, can you tell the listeners where they can learn more about you, check you out?
Jeremy: Two things, pretty easy. My name is Jeremy Reeves. Iâ€™ll tell you why Iâ€™m saying this in a second. You spell it J-E-R-E-M-Y R-E-E-V-E-S. The reason that Iâ€™m spelling it out is because the number one thing that I would recommend is just going on my website, www.JeremyReeves.com. On there, you can see whatever you want. I have free stuff on there.
There should be a popup that comes up and gives you a free report up in the navigation bar, thereâ€™s a resources section that says â€œfreeâ€ on it. Thereâ€™s different things that you can opt-in to and get a whole bunch of free stuff, interviews and reports and videos and all kinds of stuff.
The other thing is I have my own podcast. Itâ€™s called, Sales Funnel Mastery. Go into iTunes or whatever you listen to and do a search for that. You can follow me on my podcast. I do a lot of short sections, where I usually cover a single topic in five, ten, fifteen minutes, something like that. Little tidbits of strategy and stuff like that.
Those are the two things, www.JeremyReeves.com for my website. If you want to look at any of the free products I have, free services or whatever is right for you, or check out Sales Funnel Mastery. Thatâ€™s my podcast.
Eric: Nice. I was telling Jeremy before the show, I checked out his podcast yesterday. I definitely recommend everybody check out there, and definitely his site. You get some good value. I recommend it. Itâ€™s definitely worth it.
Jeremy, wow, itâ€™s been an absolutely pleasure with you. Thank you for taking the time and sharing everything with the listeners. All you listeners out there, I hope you enjoyed the show and most importantly, take action on everything Jeremy and I talked about today.
Before we go, if you guys could do me two quick favors, Iâ€™d really appreciate it. Simply hit that subscribe button, so you donâ€™t miss out on a future business boosting podcast. If you stuck around this far, you obviously enjoyed the value share. Make sure you do those reviews and comments. I need your help in getting noticed and getting the value out to more people.
Iâ€™m your host Eric Barton, a result specialist, signing out today. Weâ€™ll see you next week for another fast easy success marketing insider. Hereâ€™s to your success.
Itâ€™s Jeremy back here again. I really hope you enjoyed that interview. For more information on this podcast and everything like that. A couple things, make sure that youâ€™re subscribed to this podcast to make sure youâ€™re getting every episode. This is the kind of stuff that I cover, everything that we went over in that interview; just really, really solid, insightful strategies for building your business.
Make sure that youâ€™re telling friends about the podcast, we can get the rankings up there and get the word out to everybody. Make sure that you’re leaving reviews and clicking the little stars; especially, in iTunes. That helps me boost the rankings and get more attention so everybody else can benefit from this.
Thatâ€™s pretty much it. I will see you at www.JeremyReeves.com. I really hope you enjoyed this. Thanks.