Doberman Dan On Never Giving Up

In this episode, we chat with “Doberman Dan”, Dan Gallapoo. Dan has gone through more disasters and failures than most people do in a lifetime, yet has figured out a way to “get up” over and over again. We talk about what it means to be a REAL entrepreneur, how to continue to push forward when everything around you is crumbling, and much more. This is a must-listen!

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Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast.

I am saying my own title wrong.

And today I have on the line, a good buddy of mine.

His name is Doberman Dan. If you guys have been around you may or may not have heard his name.

He is a little bit of an underground kind of guy, a little bit how I am and he likes it that way. He likes to do things to himself in the dark.

Dan is — he is basically the true definition of a kitchen-table entrepreneur you know and that is kind of what we are going to talk about today is you know, what a real entrepreneur is and some of the stories that he has.

I know — I met him down in — I think it was Florida?

Doberman Dan: Yeah. We were in Naples.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Naples. Both kind of working with the same client and so we you know, had a fun night out and I heard some of his stories. I am not sure he is going to repeat them on here or not but he has got some interesting tales and so we are going to get into that.

I am going to kind of give a little bit of a disclaimer that you may not want to listen to this when you are in front of young children or sensitive wives or husbands.

If anybody is sensitive to language, I have given Dan full permission to be himself, so we are going to see where that leads.

And you know, like I said, he has got some interesting you know, stories to tell.

So with that said, Dan, tell everybody a little bit more about your story and kind of you know, where you started you know, some of the things that you have done in your life. What you do first of all and we will go from there.

Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the opportunity Jeremy. I have been looking forward to this. We had fun down in Naples and I mean really other than some emails we really have not a chance to speak since then.

Jeremy Reeves: I know. It sucks.

Doberman Dan: So cool. So now we got to do that and then you get to record it and other people got to eavesdrop I guess. So I am going to tell all the crazy stuff you did on Naples after several weeks (inaudible 2:27.0) lampshades on your head and all that stuff.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I was drinking at Manhattan that night I think.

Doberman Dan: That is right. That is right.

So my story is I am a guy who grew up in Barberton, Ohio. So raised by poor parents. They are good people, just poor. Poor because they were poor in thought and — you know, not to make excuses, but my mother grew up in (inaudible 2:56.8) poverty and if you ain’t seen Mississippi poverty, you ain’t seen poverty. It ain’t like the poverty you know, you and I see Jeremy when I lived in Ohio and you up in PA.

This is 3rd world poverty. So you know, that affects a person and they usually (inaudible 3:16.3) so that was pretty much my life had been decided for me because of that conditioning and my faith so to speak was for me to graduate from Barberton high school and do the best — get the best job I could possibly get which was at that time (inaudible 3:38.1 ) rubber companies in Akron, Ohio, but I get fired (inaudible 3:41.8 ).

Unfortunately, in 83, when I graduated (inaudible 3:46.5) started moving out of Akron. So yeah, I did figure out what the heck I was going to do and to keep this short, I bounced around from thing to thing. Took the first jobs I could get and they were a lot of them. Vacuum cleaner salesman.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice.

Doberman Dan: Yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: That had to be exciting.

Doberman Dan: So exciting. I was not door to door though, although, I have sold stuff door to door too, not vacuum cleaners but (inaudible 4:16.4) distance service door to door, but yeah, the vacuum cleaner gig was I was manufacturers rep, but I would go into retail establishments and I have to sell the people you know, looking for vacuum cleaner. I had to sell them all my particular brand and so —

Anyway, one of the gigs I got was in security at the mall and then that lead to loss prevention job in a department store.

This pre-camera days Jeremy if you keeping imagining this we lurked the floor in you know, just civilian clothes with a bag on our hands like we were shoppers, but we are out looking for shoplifters.

So that lead to meeting some of the local cops and then some of our friends I worked with say, Hey, work at city of Dayton, giving civil service test for police officer. We are going to go take it next week. You want to go?

And my first reaction was, well, yeah I guess. I will take the civil service test but anything after that if they call me in for an interview you know, I have to be honest about my drug use in high school and he was like, wait you are going to be disqualified because I smoked a lot of weed.

Anyway, long story short, the Dayton Police Department understood that that was part of the growing up phase and they hired me.

And that was supposed to be a temporary gig Jeremy while I went and sought my true life form dream of being a professional musician.

So the police department thing was like, ah well, I can (inaudible 5:50.3) buy some guitar gears and recording gear you know and then when I get (inaudible 5:55.9) money saved up, I will move out to LA and go to musician institute or something.

Anyway, my temporary and I am doing (inaudible 6:05.3) temporary job with the city turned into a 12 year gig and through 9 of those years, first 3 years full time police officer, part-time entrepreneur, but part-time failed entrepreneur every single venture. I tried to go in, just crashed and burned.

It was painful.

If I got (inaudible 6:35.2) or I would have been living under bridges and eating up dumpsters.

So through just at filing, getting tired of beat my head up against the wall, and all these failed ventures, I stumbled upon this dude name Dan Kennedy.

You have heard of Dan right.

Jeremy Reeves: A little bit.

Doberman Dan: Speaking of an underground guy. Nobody in online marketing or direct response marketing has ever heard of Dan Kennedy.

Jeremy Reeves: He is probably the most well known marketer I think that has ever lived.

Doberman Dan: I am going to agree with that.

So I bought some of Dan’s stuff because it was promising that it could help you get a lot of customers and whatever business I had at that time (inaudible 7:16.8) was failing miserably I thought well maybe this is what I need, but I totally got flipped around when I realized, man I just bought some really bad copies in a 3-ring binder in like really bad audio cassette copy, probably like 8th generation audio cassette copy.

If anybody remembers audio cassette it is like, would you make a copy of a copy of a copy 8 times. The quality of that is like (inaudible 7:47.7).

Jeremy Reeves: They sound like The Martian.

Doberman Dan: That is right.

And I realized — oh by the way, the product was awesome. It was all information about direct response marketing which I did not know anything about, but I realized this Dave Kennedy dude just sold me this thing paper and ink and a few cassettes for $400 with a letter and I thought, that is a way cooler business than any of these other ones I have tried to get going.

So yeah, they got me started down the path of direct response marketing and copywriting and that led me starting my first mail order business in 1995 which was an information business in bodybuilding market.

That was after 9 years of failure, that was the first business that works for me and about a year later, it was making — not a lot of money, but it was making enough money to get me free of the police department job.

So ever since 95 that has been my whole deal.

Me starting businesses like that on my kitchen table with nothing but a yellow pad, a blue pen, and this squishy gray matter between my ears.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah. And you know, I know you used to be on the bodybuilding.

In fact, I actually saw a picture, I do not know. I think this is you. There is a gray picture — if you look up Doberman Dan in Google there is a gray picture of you I think when you were younger. It is in Fitness Atlantic. I am going to Skype it to you right now.

Doberman Dan: I am 51 now, I am sure I was in much better shape when I was younger. I am sure of it when I was younger.

Jeremy Reeves: There. I just send it to you. I am going to put that picture up in the show notes just to embarrass you.

Doberman Dan: (inaudible 9:33.6) make sure it is me. My goodness. I am downloading it now. This will be interesting. Is it the one in the blue shirt?

Jeremy Reeves: No. No. You have your shirt off.

Doberman Dan: Oh no, no, no, no. That is not me (inaudible 9:51.9) any pictures of me with my shirt off.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay. It looks like you actually.

Alright. Never mind, I cannot embarrass you then.

Damn it. Alright.

Anyway, so getting back to copy and not talking about your shirt off. As exciting is that would probably be to listen to.

Doberman Dan: At this point, at age 51, it will be exciting to know one.

Jeremy Reeves: So I mean you used to be a huge — are you doing anything with that anymore. I feel like you sold that business a while back right?

Doberman Dan: Yeah I did. That infobusiness in bodybuilding niche led to a supplement business. My first supplement business because I figure it out you know, (inaudible 10:34.2) I am making pretty money selling infoproducts to these guys, but these guys are — spent a lot of money on supplements.

So I just kind of figured, all I need to do with my customers who buy my info is just flipped them to buy supplements from me. They are already buying the stuff. (inaudible 10:50.9) buying them for me and that 10x my business (inaudible 10:54.8) overnight.

So that was fun, but I sold that business quite some time ago yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah that is — I work with a lot of people in the you know, the health market now and that is one of their main strategies is like, hey, I am going to teach you how to do this and then the pitch is so easy. It is hey, look, you know, I just taught you how to do whatever like overcome this or you know, get bigger or get skinnier or you know, get better vision or feel better or whatever it is and then it is like, hey do you want to just take a pill and you know, and you will get that result and it is such an easy like just you know, like you said, 10 times your business and you know, I think that is why — it such an — like a congruent up sell to what you sold them first you know.

I think a lot of people missed that you know, when they are doing up sells I see people they are selling 1 thing and then you know, you get to the next page or they have the backend and they are selling something that is like, it is like kind of in the same realm, but it is really not like hey, you know, it is not the next logical step you know.

Like infoproduct to a supplement is a perfect logical step because it is like hey, you can either go through everything. Do everything on your own. It is going to take in the next 6 months to get results. It is going to be complicated blah.. blah.. blah. or you are going to just take this and you know, you get bigger or get skinnier or whatever and it takes like 3 seconds you just pop the pill.

I actually just took a fish or krill oil supplement as you were talking.

But yeah —

Doberman Dan: I agree.

Sorry to interrupt.

You just pointed out something that is you know, from your observations there is really downright brilliant. It is a great marketing lesson and it is also a good lesson in human nature that people want the magic pill.

So the closer your stuff whatever that is your product, your services, your advise can be to a magic pill most likely the better it is going to sell.

So the bodbuilders like I said they will buy information, but what they really wanted is they wanted the magic pill or they want — I want the magic protein powder that I can drink this today and tomorrow I wake up looking like Arnold.

And even so that is what they want to buy you know, they are buying protein powder and creatine stuff.

So I sold what they wanted.

Now the reality is all that stuff helps okay, but what they really need was better information. They were all eating like crap and they were trained right. So I quickly flipped my business model to sell them what they want and give them what they need about infoproducts that I was selling now became bonuses that I gifted my customers when they bought supplements.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like that.

So I have a — I have a transition. I am stretching it a little bit, but I wanted to bring it up and I am going to warn everybody that if you are still around family you may not want to be, but do you think — we were just talking about the magic pill, right.

Do you think that that is what politicians are selling?

You know, if you think about everything going on with you know, with Hillary and doofus right.

You know Hillary and Trump you know, think about what they are selling people.

It is the magic pill.

Hey, you know, elect me and you are going to get this and this and this and this and you do not have to do anything for it because all you have to do is pay your tax is what you are doing anyway and I am going to fix all your problems for you, you know.

What are your thoughts on that and just you know, politics and kind of government in general?

Doberman Dan: That is not a stretch at all, political issues. That is totally related. Yeah. I mean I would 100% agree with that.

I think that is what — I think that is what these guys are selling. They are selling the magic pill because they are — I mean as far as marketers, they are smart.

Jeremy Reeves: Their marketing is insane.

Doberman Dan: Maybe not the politicians, but at least whoever their handlers are. You know, they understand the psychology of persuasion.

Listen, even the most logical amongst us wants to believe in the magic pill. There is something in us that wants to believe it even though we know it just does not exist.

And so they are offering all kinds of stuff you know and you know, we are going to take care of you, cradle the grave, healthcare is going to be free you know, we are going to make university free now, this and that is going to be free, it is going to be so much better because we are running it. Thank God we are getting the evil greedy capitalist out of this shit and you know, we are taking it over.

And people want that.

I will correct you (inaudible 15:59.0) something you said and the part of the pitch is you just keep paying your taxes, we are going to take care of — well, half the people are not paying taxes.

So we have arrived at the point where the productive 50% are supporting those who choose to be unproductive.

Jeremy Reeves: That is a good point.

Doberman Dan: You know, here is the bottom line.

Anything that the government — the government produces nothing. The government does not produce values.

Anything the government gives you, they have taken from somebody else and they have taken it by force, by either use of deadly force or the use of incarceration or the threat of deadly force and threat of incarceration.

So if you are taking money from the government you know, I do not see how anybody can feel good about that because what was given to you was taken away from somebody at gunpoint.

In (inaudible 17:01.6) well they have so much you know, they deserved (inaudible 17:04.6) take it from them. Really? Let us apply that to you.

I am going to show up your house with a bunch of armed guys and I am going stick my Glock 19, my sidearm of choice it is like 98.

I am going to stick it in your face or better than yet I am going to stick it in your children’s face and I am going to tell you everything. I want half of everything you got right now and if I do not get it, I am going to incarcerate you and your family or worse, I will just — if you resist and do not go on peacefully, we are going to kill you.

Because you have so much and others have so little.

And I am not talking about people who are not capable of producing from themselves you know.

My gosh, we should help them. We personally (inaudible 17:53.5) the people. The government has no business being in that business because they screwed up. They take 99% of the money from themselves and use 1% of it to help the people who need help.

Jeremy Reeves: I am going to interrupt you really quick right there.

I just saw a thing the other day. Now this is not government, but it is just — it is kind of the same when you are talking about like efficiency of you know, people like, oh I paid my taxes and it goes toward this and this and this and the fact is, it does not you know.

So I was just reading something the other day about Red Cross right you know, big charity everybody trust them.

Doberman Dan: For good sample.

Jeremy Reeves: Right. They got a half of billion dollars, I think it was last year. I forgot the timeframe. Just say it was last year right. Half a billion dollars and their thing is they build houses in like 3rd world countries that kind of thing right.

So half a billion right. Guess how many houses they build with it?

Doberman Dan: With the half of billion, you could build a lot of house.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Just take a guess.

Doberman Dan: I have no idea.

Jeremy Reeves: Go on. Throw some out there.

Doberman Dan: I mean, if you are building nice solid you know, house. I mean you could build thousands of thousands with that much money.

Jeremy Reeves: Six. Six houses.

So they are building basically you know, whatever that is like 85 million dollar houses.

That is the efficiency.

You know, compare that if that money went to an entrepreneur and that was his business to be able to build houses and somehow he got compensated for that right.

There are some type of incentive to do that you know, how many you think could be build? They probably build them for — I do not know, say $20,000 each, so that is I do not know what the hell the math is on that one. It is a lot you know.

If it is 50,000 even it is — Jesus (inaudible 19:40.1) 10,000 or 100,000 houses versus 6 you know what I mean.

I think that goes to kind of prove the point on that you know and it is just you know, who is going to build the roads of all entrepreneurs well you know. Who is going to do this for us entrepreneurs.

And it is going to be cheaper. It is going to be more fare because there is actually competition. That is like you know, people — that is actually another good point you know, bring it back to marketing is when people say, hey, you know, I am going to try to find an industry with no competition and it is like, no, because nobody is buying anything there you know.

Doberman Dan: That is right. There is a reason there is no competition.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And it is good going into markets with competition because even if you are new to it, it forces you to be better, you know what I mean.

Regardless of what it is you know, someone comes out with a similar product as you. Well guess what, you got to go back to the drawing board.

You got to figure out how to make yourself better you know. That is what being an entrepreneur is all about you know.

It is not about just creating something, making money and just sitting there. It is about creating something, making money, and then going back to the beginning and saying okay, how do we make this better. How do we you know, improve our efficiency. How do we you know add more value. How do we you know, whatever. And it is just you know, people I think forget that point you know.

Have you ever had any experience with that? Like you know, as you were building some of the businesses that you have over the years, have you ever kind of come across a situation where you know, you have it, it was doing well and then all of the sudden something happened whether it is a new competitor or you know, Google banned you or you know whatever you know, something happened and you have to kind of go back to the drawing board and you know, you kind of hit that “O shit moment” and you have to go back and then kind of made everything better you know, than it were been?

Doberman Dan: All the time in every single venture I have started since 1995.

Once, the last supplement business — the supplement business that I sold back in 2012 which I started in 2004 because of things like that, because of changes in Google AdWords and other online marketing changes that happened, like I lost half of my business overnight.

I had this dream that I am going to start some deal that after get it going and tweaked in and doing testing, I get it going good. It is just going to be smooth sailing and it is just going to keep going like it never happened.

There is always something that happens like you mentioned. Competitors coming in (inaudible 22:18.6) you know.

Advertising media being taken away, Google AdWords, I mean we have been through several versions of that.

Facebook is now — many people are going through. I just went through that just a couple of months ago. Facebook ads are working great. Facebook ads just going to hell overnight.

Email marketing just kicking ass. All of the sudden open rates across all different platforms AWeber, Infusionsoft all these different 3rd party platforms.

Boom. Open rates cut in half. Now all of the sudden, you know, less than 50% of the people who used to get through messages are now getting them.

It happens all the time and it is still frustrating but let us take a 30,000 feet from above view on this Jeremy.

I think the reason most people become entrepreneurs even if they do not know it at that time because everybody says they get into this for the money or the lifestyle or both.

I do not really believe that is why they are in it. I think that is — those things are serendipities.

I think the person who is attracted to this lifestyle is getting into it or even if they are not conscious of it because they want to grow as a human being and you cannot be the same — let us say you are making a $100,000 a year now in your business and you want to make $200,000, you cannot be the same person you are now and grow your business to the point where you are making $200,000.

You have got to grown and improve as a person and all these challenges that constantly hit us as entrepreneurs and things working great all of the sudden go to pot all that stuff.

It is your self-improvement process.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah.

Doberman Dan: That is you know, I mean like, it seems like it sucks at that time. It is it biggest blessing from the universe you could ever possibly ask for.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you know what, I think that is a good point. You know, people still you know, kind of think of the whole mindset thing.

It is like, oh well you know, mindset does not matter. It is just you know, cookie it is (inaudible 24:41.1) you know, but honestly, I have never ever, ever, ever in my life come across a person that was really successful that mindset was not the number 1 thing that they focused on you know.

It is like you need like the skills or whatever you do, but if you do not have the mindset to back it up, the ideas never even come you know. The thoughts never formed.

If you are not ready to grow when you know, shit hits the fan like you just, you crumble you know and that is why you hear a lot of entrepreneurs something happens and they just never get out of it you know, they hit that they hit the rock bottom and you know, the rock is just keep tumbling all over him versus you know the really successful entrepreneurs. They hit rock bottom all the time you know, a lot of us.

And thankfully, like as you get more — as you get more successful it seems like the bottom is a little bit higher you know. So like I know my old failures like you know, looking at them now is like who freaking cares. It was like (inaudible 25:42.8).

Whereas now it is like, it is easier to kind of pick yourself up off the floor you know what I mean, because you you know, because you are better as a person you know. You have more skills, you have a better mindset. You can push yourself through it.

I think a lot of people you know just expecting to go smooth all the time. They expect to launch a product and it is profitable. Boom day 1 you know, like how often does that really happen.

You know, it requires testing and tweaking and then it becomes profitable and then you know, you start multiplying the profits and then guess what? Eventually, like you said, something happens and it goes back down then you got to figure out okay, you know, what happened or why it happened. How do we fix it you know.

And like you said, a lot of times, when the bad things happened that in the moment you think is like the most horrific thing ever. Like you said, it is typically like a big blessing in disguise and you can rebuild the business a lot stronger than it was because when bad things happened it reveals the weaknesses that were in the business.

So then you rebuild it with by strengthening those weaknesses so then you know, it does not happen again, hopefully.

Doberman Dan: That is so true. And the mindset is a key to all that. I have had a love-hate relationship with mindset back when I was the 9-year serial failure entrepreneur.

I got deep into all the (inaudible 27:11.3) stuff (inaudible 27:12.4) all the classic stuff. I mean constantly listening to those tapes you know, somebody got the Amway business so I was going to all those functions and you know, I was deep into it as you can get. I mean could quote chapter and verse all of the stuff you know.

Every day and (inaudible 27:29.5) I am getting better and better (inaudible 27:31.5) and all that stuff you know.

Things in my life were just not working. It was horrible and after a while I just got fed up and I am like you know, the hell with this. Let us just focus on pragmatic stuff and I learned direct response marketing and copywriting and I just put my head down and just work like a fiend and things went well because of that, but they never went really well.

I would grow things — I would get things going that would grow really fast and I have this big successes and then you know, I would lose all my — I have gone broke 4 times. I have gone legally bankrupt once and then completely broke another 3 — almost 4 times but 3 times for sure broke like nothing.

And that kept happening and you know, but still I was able to persist just because of an insane work ethic and just stupid persistence like anybody in the right mind should have quit and I was keep going.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Sometimes it helps being slightly insane.

Doberman Dan: (inaudible 28:45.9) insanity. Insanity has my vote. (inaudible 28:50.0) crazy people are the happiest so but I just always hit these brick walls until recently and I think I finally found my balance. I mean, yeah, it is mind status such a huge part of it and there is stuff that you know, I do not understand why it works that way.

First of all you feel better when you have the right mindset so that affects what you do and how you react to stuff that there is some other energy-related, quantum physics-related things going on with that too.

The past couple of years since I finally found my balance between the pragmatic but just do a whole a bunch of stuff and work like crazy. Balancing that with the right mindset the floodgates have open (inaudible 29:36.3) 21 years but you know, in most cases, one of my friend says, it is not a skill set, it is a mindset.

If you have the right mindset, you can get the skill set you need to do whatever it is you want or you can buy the skill set you need by hiring somebody else or you know, if you really got a vision, you will find people with the skill sets you need who will follow you.

So yeah, mindset is huge man.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know, one of the things you are kind of talking about was the ability to just get back up you know when you are down and just the ability to push through it with just you know, (inaudible 30:21.1) determinance is that a word?

Doberman Dan: It is now.

Jeremy Reeves: Determinance, I am going to use that in email.

Remember everybody you heard it here first (inaudible 30:35.6).

Shit. Now I forgot what I was talking about.

Doberman Dan: Getting up once you get knocked down.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it is like anything else in your life you know.

If you want to like you know, you have been into bodybuilding and the only way that your muscle grows is that if you add you know extra stimulus that is not used to and you push your body to grow.

You know if you go and you do this you know, you are curling 40 pounds every single time you go, well guess what, you are going to get strong just like — just strong enough so your body can lift that weight comfortably you know and it is not going to get any stronger because why would it. That is all you are doing every time, but if you go into the gym every single day and every time you are pushing yourself you know, your body has to adapt and that is how you get stronger and bigger and you know, the same thing losing weight. I mean, you have to go into a deficit you know to lose weight and you know, sometimes that means being hungry you know, and you just have to say well freaking shit, I want to lose weight you know. I know I am hungry, but you know, you just kind of push through it.

I feel like a lot of you know, since the whole like (inaudible 31:40.8) talking about before you know, we started recording you know, I am all about lifestyle, but a lot of people take like they start a business and they are like, oh I want a lifestyle business.

And they think that they can do that from day 1 you know and it is just not the case you know.

You have to have that momentum first before you can have the lifestyle like you have to do like you did. It took you 21 years, but now you have the lifestyle you know.

It may take some people longer. It may take some people shorter you know. I think it is a lot easier to make money now than it was you know, back in like 90s and everything because it was you know, with just you know, online marketing methods it is so much easier to just get your you know, get your name out there.

But yeah, I mean, I think that, I think that like rugged entrepreneur mindset has vanished since the internet came out you know. What do you think about that?

Doberman Dan: Well, it seems to be vanishing in the U.S. but since to be thriving in other countries like Asia.

In fact, Dan Kennedy told me just a few weeks ago that if he were younger man and was not in the process of pretty much scaling down to retirement in the next year or so he would be completely focused on Asia because they have the mindset and the work ethic that we used to have here.

Although, you know, I should not generalized. There are still, there are still a lot of people who have it here.

Jeremy Reeves: Oh sure. Definitely.

Doberman Dan: You know, it seems to have been brainwashed out of entire generations.

Yeah. It is the persistence. It is the — it is just getting back up when you get knocked down that I do not know man. It does look seemed to be that we have that like we used to know. It sounds like (inaudible 33:37.0) and maybe we can blame the government. I mean they have been —

Jeremy Reeves: Might as well.

Doberman Dan: (inaudible 33:45.2) they have been working really hard since about World War II to condition that mindset in the people because of their agenda.

And you know, like hey, do not worry about it you know we got to take care or take care your cradle to grave you know just get on the gravy train man. Just (inaudible 34:05.6).

And you know, so there is that safety net like for me that was not an option. There was no safety net. The option was I made this work or you know, I am literally homeless which I have been literally homeless. Thank God I have this piece of shit 10-year-old Ford Taurus to live in for about a month while I went through that, but you know, those — I did not have any other options, so I had to get that go.

And I will say this. People asked me how did you keep doing it after so many failures for so long like 10 year, a decade of one after the other business failures you know, at least 2 to 3 years.

So the truth of the matter is every time something (inaudible 34:57.3) I give myself a certain period of time where I do the pity party thing, but then after that it is like, alright. I am done. It is now, it is now time to stop crying in my beer and get back up and go at it and jeez man even if — even if you just are a complete screw up and do not know a damn thing just do process of elimination you will eventually stumble up or something works for you.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is funny. I actually do the exact same thing like whenever something goes bad or you know, I do a client project and it does not you know, turned out as we hoped for the first round or something like that and I just you know, you get that like failure feeling. Oh my God, you know, I am worthless. I am like you know, I sucked in what I do you know, you go through that whole kind of alter ego where you are just like horrible person.

I actually set like I will set a deadline so if it happen right now you know, if I got an email or something you know, it is 2:45 right now and if I got an email I would say, okay you know, like I would lock upstairs. I would be (inaudible 36:01.7) my wife would be like, Jeremy what is wrong. I would say nothing. She says something is wrong. What is wrong you know, you go through that thing. And then I would tell her and then I would say, alright, you know, what — after like an hour you know, because the first like hour or so you just feel like (inaudible 36:14.4) and then like after like an hour it is like alright. I am giving myself a specific timeframe you know.

I am allowed to feel like hell for the next whatever it is like the rest of the day or whatever and then you know, you put on your calendar alright, now that is over. Pity party is over. Now it is back to work and we got to figure out what was wrong and how to fix it and how to you know, make sure that mistake never happens again you know.

Doberman Dan: Absolutely. You know like, you go back out in the garage and you go ahead and take down the news you put up and like okay, well.

Jeremy Reeves: So speaking of like you know, you were saying you kind of after so many failures there is just enough of them that you made that is kind of process of elimination.

What were some of the things that you know, you kind of you know, you made all the failures for how many years like a decade or whatever and then you started, I mean you are like fantastically good on what you do and you have some huge successes.

So like what was the turning point?

What was like the big kind of “Aha Moment” that you had after all the failures?

Doberman Dan: I think it was just the process. I do not think I had all the sudden flash of brilliance and thing and the dots connected.

It all came from well a couple of things. I mean in spite of really, really bad conditioning, I just knew it just made logical sense if 1 human being can do something then even if I am not as smart as them not as good looking, I do not have any money, I can do the same thing, maybe better.

So that kept me going, but you know what it was, it was getting back up after getting knocked down. I mean if you just keep getting up to bat and swing it at that thing with all your might you know, eventually, you are going to get a hit and you know, in some people if I have led people to believe this then I apologize, but you know, some people think after certain number of years who just well you have got it nailed and everything you do is a home run now.

It is still like 8 out of every 10 swings at that ball is a complete strike out you know.

It is just that continuing to get up to bat to go through the numbers you got to go through to get to the homerun or you know heck. You can make a really great career out of base hits.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Lot of people do.

Yeah. It is actually funny because the playoffs you know on right now. I always watch the — my wife loves the Red Sox so I always watch whenever they are in the playoffs. So I always watch it with her and they just lost actually and you know, David Ortiz retired and you know, Big Puppy.

And he was you know, one of the best players they have had in a long, long time and you know, his average was I do not know what it is exactly, but it was roughly you know, .3 which means that guess what. He went up to bat 10 times, he only got on base 3 out of 10 and he was like one of the most famous baseball players right now you know what I mean.

He is like an absolute rockstar for 3 out of 10 and you know, it’s — that is I think how most entrepreneurs are.

And there are a lot of ways I think to increase that like if you know, if you already have a big influence in your industry and you are launching a new product that you have done surveys, you have done all the research to figure out that they definitely want it that kind of thing like you are going to improve your chances, but you know, when you are coming out a new stuff, I mean it is you know, like I was telling the client the other day.

You know, I was kind of talking to them about it and I said you know, if every entrepreneur hit not even a homerun but — even minimally successful with everything they did, everybody in the world would be an entrepreneur you know what I mean.

Like the only — like you have to be an entrepreneur if you are willing to get punch in the face and then you know, kicked a couple of times while you are down and then stand back up and then have like 3 more people punch you in the face you know and then have a truck run over you while you are on the ground and go through that you know for years and then be able to stand up on your own you know.

I think that it is just —

Doberman Dan: That is a good analogy because that is how I feel sometimes.

Jeremy Reeves: It does. Like you said, even now you know, even people who are successful. I think it is something that a lot of people do not share is like a lot of people are not vulnerable enough and you know, but we all go through it you know, I do. You do. Every successful person does. Dan Kennedy you know, I am sure he has been doing it for you know, like 400 years now you know, like we said before, he is one of the most you know, well-known marketers that is probably ever lived and I am sure he still has a ton of promotions that bomb you know what I mean.

Doberman Dan: He does.

Jeremy Reeves: And you just you know, you go back to the drawing board and you find out why it failed and then you redo it and then you find out why the second one failed and then you know, you redo it and then you just keep doing that until it wins you know.

It is kind of the name of the game.

Doberman Dan: It is the name of the game. I think too many people who give up too soon you know, the problem is do not compare your backstage to somebody else’s frontstage.

So in our — we got a weird world that we live in Jeremy.

This internet marketing world — right now I guess this would be considered my frontstage okay.

I am on an interview and you know we are talking about my experience and my successes and stuff and I used to go to these interviews and I would think (inaudible 42:08.0) I mean this guy is making a billion dollars a minute with everything he does you know.

I can barely pay my bills and well you know, there we go. That is comparing your backstage with the person’s frontstage.

When you are seeing somebody on stage in situations like this and they are talking about their successes most are not going to mention all the stuff that just went horribly wrong and it was bad because it is still I mean you never — sorry if I am discouraging anyone, you never reach a point where it is just like — Oh I am now successful, it will be smooth sailing from here.

Now, as long as you are building something it is going to be like for every 7, 8, 9 times up to bat it strikeout or for every 100 times off the bat 99 times are strikeout you know, 100 times of base hit you know, it’s good base hit. You get (inaudible 43:07.8) but that is just the real world man.

So do not feel bad if you are in the middle of that. That is like perfectly normal. You are right on track just — if you have been feeling bad it is probably because you are comparing you backstage to some other (inaudible 43:24.0) frontstage.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I can tell your Dan Sullivan’s fan with the frontstage and backstage.

I know exactly what you are talking about.

And actually another thing that he talks about before we wrap here — another thing he talks about is the gap you know.

I do not know if you are familiar with that concept, but basically, you know, when you are like when you look at yourself and you are actually doing pretty good you know. You are making a decent income. You are hitting some you know, successes. You know, you are chugging along and you are looking at all your competitors and everyone else who is doing better than you and you are making yourself feel like hell.

First of all, I mean that is normal, it is human nature. We are always going to compare ourselves to others you know.

You are going to feel better if you do not do that, but it is a lot easier said than done.

I even find myself doing that sometimes you know.

I can — I have kind of train myself to catch it so it does not happen very long. It is kind of like a couple minute kind of thing anymore, but if you just change the frame of it and rather than comparing yourself to what you want to be right. Like comparing like you are the middle here and there is the past behind you and there is a future in front.

Rather than comparing yourself to where you want to be so like say you are making $100,000 a year now you want to make a million right, huge gap in between there.

Compare yourself to what you used to be you know like you, you know. Compare yourself to like when you are going through you know, some of the bad times. Compare yourself to the worse times when you were you know, broke and living in the car and right now like if you compare it to your past it is going to — you are going to feel like royalty even in your worst spot you know, rather than comparing to you know, where everyone else is and there is just that huge gap between that and it makes you feel horrible you know.

And then you know, it kills your creativity. You cannot focus. Like you just — you kind of get in that like depressive state and it is hard to climb out of that you know.

So it is just about shifting your focus I think.

Doberman Dan: Yeah. It goes back to mindset too.

The gap in the (inaudible 45:33.5) was a huge epiphany for me that you know.

Anybody that is profession is tendencies like I do which by the way is just that is not noble. Being (inaudible 45:46.2) is not noble. It is a form of self hate and it is just pure torture. I mean you would not tweak your worst enemy like that, but anyway, those of us who have been cursed for whatever reason with the profession as tendencies are always looking at the gap and again comparing our backstage to somebody’s frontstage and look at the gap like, oh man I wanted to make (inaudible 46:12.2) much money. I wanted this size of business and I am only here.

Man you are really beating yourself up. Why don’t you turn around every now and then and look where you are now from where you came from and that might be a huge revelation to you.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Absolutely. Well said.

Well hey. I know we got — we both going to hop off here in a minute here, but you know, before we jump off. Two things. Number 1, if there is anything that you know, you got on this podcast and you kind of had in your mind that you have some kind of big insight that you wanted people to know. Let everyone know before you know, before we wrap up if I forgot to ask you question or there is just something that is like burning inside you that you just kind of what everybody to know.

If you have anything like that and then secondly, tell everyone where they can you know, hear more about you and kind of get onto your list and just you know, listen to your shenanigans and help them grow their business and all that kind of fun stuff.

Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the opportunity to do both those things. It is kind of funny Jeremy. Initially, I had the intention that I was going to talk about some recent revelations breakthroughs that I have had in — as far as marketing goes, but it was all mechanics stuff you know. It was like this type of funnel and marketing versus this type. I kind of — not kind of. I mean I had it on my head to talk about that, but you took it in a direction –You are a good interviewer man.

You took it into the direction that I was not prepared for, but I believe you know, based on 30 years experience now as a serial entrepreneur, it was something way more important than the mechanics. I was initially going to talk about it.

So I would say now that if I am going to leave somebody with something I would say this.

You are not broken. You are as good or better than anybody else.

If anybody has done (inaudible 48:19.8) like if you think what I have done is pretty cool. Oh trust me. My dear listener. This is nothing that you cannot do. I can with 100% — I would bet every penny I have that you can do it and I think Jeremy is the one who dug up the key to making that happen.

This interview today, you have dug up the key to making that happened and that is just to continue to get up time after time no matter hard they knocked you down. You just continue to get up.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Absolutely you know. One thing I would like to add to that is do not look at this you know, because I think what we covered today and I know like we you know, have the conversation before we started and we were going to talk about like totally different stuff, but you know, and that is why I do interviews like this. That is why I do not script questions because a lot of times you just get on the path and it is just the right path you know.

I think this is way more valuable than if we talk about like oh you know, what is the last 3 split test that won for you and you know. What is the — how do you write better headlines or whatever.

The one thing that I kind of wanted just to expand on is do not look at everything especially the gap I would say.

Do not look at everything just in terms of business. Apply it to all of your life right. Apply to it your health. Apply it to your relationships with your wife or your husband. Apply it to how your parenting you know. Apply it to if you are spiritual you know, your spiritual practice or your religious practice whatever you are into you know.

Look at how — because we all you know, we all want to grow especially entrepreneurs you know, we all have like you said before. We all have that drive to get better you know, that is what makes us entrepreneurs.

So get better you know and get better without guilt you know, God, that is a good headline you know.

Doberman Dan: I am going to totally swipe (inaudible 50:19.7).

Jeremy Reeves: But honestly because you know, we all feel guilty if we have not hit our goals in the timeframe that we want to hit them in right.

So rather than doing that you know, look at your life and say well where was I before you know and how much progress have I made in my health, in my relationships, in my whatever my slip, my revenue, my parenting you know, whatever it is.

Look at that and it just puts you on such a better mind frame you know and I have got to train my wife even like when I get in mood like this because you know, I am like you, I am kind of perfectionist not really in terms of — I kind of (inaudible 50:55.5) in certain things like in results you know what I mean.

And she can tell like instantly when something bad happened and I am in one of those moods and I have kind of like trained her to say like alright well you know, what happened before this. Where were you before you know. Are you better than you were then and you know, the answer is almost always yes because it is just constant improvement you know in all the areas in my life you know.

I think if everybody looks at their life in those you know, in that frame it just makes you a lot happier and being happier and being more creative and just like kind of mentally you know free I guess makes you therefore a better entrepreneur, a better husband, a better father, a better I do not know maybe not health, but although actually yeah because you know, your mood affects what you eat a lot you know.

That is kind of the final thing I would like to add in there.

So before we head off. Where can everybody learn more about you?
Doberman Dan: Well the best place to get into my world is my website, at and if anybody wants to they can — I have been publishing a print newsletter delivered the way God intended newsletters to be delivered and paid for an ink. Why I get old fashion postal mail.

So for 6 years I have been publishing that. It is a paid newsletter, but I will give people a free PDF version in one of my newsletters at and I also have a podcast called Off The Chain With Doberman Dan that you can find on iTunes and I would just be thrilled if you show up occasionally and listen to me running my mouth on my podcast.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good and you know, like always, those links will be in the show notes. So do not even you know, you do not even have to try to remember it, just click the link on the show notes and you will go right there and yeah.

Well, hey man, it was a pleasure not only catching up, but being able to share our conversation with everybody else. It is a — I think that is one of the things I love about being able to you know, interview people is that you know, you can learn from some amazing people and you know, improve your own skills, why you are helping everybody else you know.

I think it is kind of an awesome.

Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the invitation. I had fun Jeremy. I appreciate it.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Sounds good. We will talk to you soon and thanks again.

Doberman Dan: Thank you.

About the Author Jeremy Reeves

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