Eric Siu On Growth Hacking Secrets

In this episode, we chat with Eric Siu about growth hacking!. Eric is a badass when it comes to growth hacking and how to implement little-known strategies and tactics into your business to spur new growth. We discuss everything from CRO, to ninja paid traffic secrets, and everything in between!

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Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery.

And today, we have on the line, Eric Siu.

Eric is the CEO of digital marketing agency Single Grain which has worked for Fortune 500 companies. It is a pretty big one such as Sales Force, Yahoo, and Intuit.

And what they do is they help to scale the revenues using a combination of SEO and advertising strategies which we are going to talk about that today.

He also owns Growth Everywhere which is a marketing podcast where he dissects growth levers that help business to scale. He has had guest from — on the podcast from Echo Sign founder, Jason Lemkin; Eloqua co-founder, Mark Organ, Andy Johns, (inaudible 1:01.4), Facebook, Quora, and Twitter and a whole bunch more.

He also contributes to Entrepreneur Magazine, Business Insider, Forbes, Fast Company, Time Magazine, and more.

By the way, if you guys are not listening, he also does a podcast with Neil Patel, it called Marketing School and I listen to it every morning. I also highly recommend that you guys listen to that as well.

So Eric, how are you?

Eric Siu: I am good man. Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It was a pleasure getting you on here. I think we can have a pretty fun conversation.

What we are going to talk about for everybody listening is basically what is working now because Eric is kind of like me you know, we do a lot of similar things and he is — he is kind of dabbles in a lot of different areas, so he knows what is working in a lot of different industries and a lot of different parts of the sales funnel everywhere from getting the traffic to actually making the traffic convert to making — helping people become repeat buyers and you know, and raving fans that kind of a thing.

So we are going to kind of walk through that process, but before we do why don’t you dive a little bit more into your story and tell people a little bit more about you.

Eric Siu: Yeah, absolutely. So like you mentioned you know, I have an agency called a Single Grain and yeah, I mean you know, we mostly help technology companies, a couple in Fortune 500 in there and yeah, you know, we talked about growth everywhere that is why we really interview a lot of different people. We just talk about marketing and you know, talk about business and personal growth stuff and then the new one you mentioned Marketing School, that is a daily marketing podcast where I just you know, Neil and myself nerding out on marketing every single day, but we do a lot of different things you know, in addition to helping clients grow.

We have our own projects too, so we kind of live and breathe marketing you know. Our ultimate goal is to really just accelerate the great ideas in the world and we just have fun while we are doing it.

Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. Yeah, I like that quote, accelerate the great ideas in the world. That is awesome. I like that.

Yeah, so you are actually you know, a lot of people kind of just you know, they read things and then kind of just repeat that to their audience — but you are actually in the trenches doing it you know what I mean which is kind of cool.

Unfortunately, a little bit unique — you know, I wish it was not — I wish that was not a unique thing, but it is you know.

So before we get into the you know, the content of this, all the you know, what is working basically. I like to do a couple really quick questions just so everybody can kind of get to know you a little bit more as a person right and there are 4 questions and the first one is.

What is the worst habit that you have ever had and how did you get rid of it?

Eric Siu: Worst habit that I have ever had well, I think it was probably — I think I was just being kind of get everything at once. I think that is something that (inaudible 3:50.0) sometimes it will pop up every now and then but you know, trying to do too many things and not being able to prioritize that is something that you know, easy people struggling with quite a bit because there are so many opportunities coming to you and you just do not know what to do with them. So that is what it is.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I struggle with that myself sometimes. I definitely feel you there.

Alright. Next one. If you could cross off one item on your bucket list like — you probably have cross off a bunch of things. You probably have a whole bunch that you have not you know, done yet. If you could only cross off one more thing, what would — which one would that be?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I think it would be to the ultimate one, is to give away $60 million to the charity.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like that.

And if you could change one thing about your life instantly, just you know, flick off the rest, what would it be?

Eric Siu: You know what, I do not think I would change anything. I think you know, just you know a couple of years ago or a year or two ago, I started doing the 5-minute journal and that has really taught to be a lot more grateful (inaudible 4:44.8) as long as you are grateful, I think you just have to be happy with what you have, I think you are good to go.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. You know what, I have recently started doing a similar thing myself.

I write down every morning 3 things that I am grateful for and then — I write it on a note card and then when I go up — when my wife wakes up, I am up like quarter to 6 and she comes down around like 7, I do not know, 7:30 maybe. I do not know, something like that and when I go up for coffee I give it to her and she writes hers on the back you know and then — the other night we actually asked both of our kids what their favorite part of the day was you know.

Yeah. You know, and we are teaching — they are only 3 and 5 and they are learning that skill already you know. It is so, so important.

Eric Siu: It seems like really (inaudible 5:28.7) stuff like I used to be like you know, that stuff you know, I do not need that whatever, but it genuinely helps you know for the long term.

Jeremy Reeves: Yep, yep, absolutely.

And if you had to choose a spirit animal, what would it be?

Eric Siu: Well, my spiritual animal —

Jeremy Reeves: Just the top of your head.

Eric Siu: I think it would be the bull.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay.

Eric Siu: Because I used to like the Rock. I mean that brahma bull on his arm (inaudible 5:52.1) yeah it will be a bull.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, the Rock is awesome. Nice.

Okay. So with that said, now that we kind of get to know you a little bit better.

Let us start with you know, getting people to the website you know, because there is kind of like — if you really break it down, there are really only 2 pieces you know, there are getting people to the website and then actually converting those people.

So I think we focus there you know, we can help a lot of people out. So you know, what are some of the things that you are finding that are working for the most amount of people in terms of getting people to the page whether that is — and maybe you want to split it up (inaudible 6:27.6) like free stuff versus paid traffic.

Eric Siu: Yeah. So I am going to keep it simple. I mean, you know what something that works well right now that not a lot of people are doing is
Gmail Advertising.

So that is literally you are advertising within a Gmail platform and you know, they are able to see an ad there and you click through it and (inaudible 6:46.8) to your website and the clicks are you know, really not that bad right now and the good thing about it is that you are able to target people that are opening emails.

For example, if you are Coca-Cola you want to target people that are opening emails from Pepsi or you want to target people that are opening emails from Red Bull, right.

And you are able to do that with a Gmail and bring them back and then drive a good you know, conversion rate and you know for 1 client that we had you know, they target cost per acquisition number was $150 that is for lead and we are getting that (inaudible 7:14.9) $7. So that is definitely worth trying.

Jeremy Reeves: That is crazy — I am actually — I have heard about that, but I never actually done it. Is that through Adwords?

Eric Siu: Yes.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Okay, I thought so.

I am going to have look into that more. You got my curiosity peak on that one.

And how about, anything with Facebook?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean Facebook (inaudible 7:36.0) a lot of people pushing people to you know content or to webinar (inaudible 7:39.9) whatever it is. I think Facebook is you got to be doing Facebook nowadays. I mean, it is — even it is retargeting people or getting people you know on your email list. That is kind of the bare minimum.

So definitely, you know, target cold people to your content perhaps or you can warm traffic you know, these are people that know your brand. Target them to content and then you know, try to drive them down to funnel you know, even deeper.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. You know what, you know, you are talking about content and there is kind of 2 schools of thought you know. One is hey, just you know, take it right from Facebook to your landing page whether it is a webinar or but you know, whatever it is, to your opt-in page and then the other one is you know, know (inaudible 8:15.9) content first, get super cheap clicks and then retarget them back to your opt-in pages.

Is there any — have you done any you know, because — like a lot of people are doing really well, doing both of those, you know what I mean.

Have you ever done any like straight test where you literally took the same audience, same offer, everything and tried both?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I think we have and I think it really does — (inaudible 8:39.1) it depends on the offer. It depends on what you were selling exactly. If it is something that is free you know, you might just (inaudible 8:43.8) directly to it or you know if it is a higher ticket like $1,000 or $2,000 course and they do not know who you are. You probably going to have to build that relationship and try to get into the webinar.

So obviously, the less steps you have, the better because you know, my argument with (inaudible 8:57.1) what their content in the beginning was like, you know, why you want to add that step in the beginning but you know, it does in fact work because you are building a relationship you know, (inaudible 9:05.5) a piece of content and you are able to retarget that later.

Really depends. You have to you know, work out the numbers on your end and then — I think at the end of the day, if you were able to just make 1 tweak, sometimes all it takes is just 1 tweak for a campaign to sky rocket.

So definitely test you know all the different ways, try to direct or (inaudible 9:23.1) piece of content and see how that does for you.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And you know, when it comes to you know, when it comes to — because a lot of people really they do not focus enough.

And I am actually building — I am in the middle of building a course on doing webinars and one of the things that I am talking about is pre-selling people, you know what I mean, because so many people it is like you are taking them from you know, wherever it is, Facebook or Adwords or whatever it is and they have never heard about you and it is just like plop you know, right into the ad and I have seen a lot of people try where the ad itself had.

It was more of curiosity thing you know and then when they get to landing page, they have like — there is no context. There is no pre-sell whatsoever and they are getting a lot of clicks, but they are not getting a lot of conversions and you know, kind of the theory behind that is because they are not pre-sold you know.

What are your thoughts on pre-selling people like do you try to really — well I guess without giving it away you know, when you are writing ads for let us just say Facebook just for example. Do you try to you know, do you try to write the ads in a way that it kind of you know, targets a specific audience or do you do it more you know, maybe you are having a success with doing it more curiosity based you know, what are your thoughts on the actual ad itself?

Eric Siu: Yeah. So, when I target people I mean you know, obviously you wanted to go to the you know, the message to whoever your target instead of just writing a general one. I mean — I think you know, in general, the logic is you know, obviously (inaudible 10:55.6) target, it is going to resonate, it is going to get better, click to rates, better engagement in overall it is just better you know, better (inaudible 11:01.2). So yeah, that is generally what we do on that front.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, sounds good.

You know — and actually you know, while I am here, have you found anything that is working best for different price points you know. You know usually I find it usually like higher price points are webinars, have you found anything else — I guess more in getting people kind of into the you know, the lower end product like for example.

I have a client right now and they are selling a product for $250 right. It is a physical product, it is this mask that you put on your face. It is for like, you go out in the sun and it rejuvenates your face that kind of thing, right. So it is a beauty product.

So we are not really going to do a webinar on that, probably a video at some point, but you know, it does not really fit into like a webinar category, but it is also not a just like, hey you know, here is this thing go buy it type of deal. Now we are going to try Amazon ads, but you know, besides Amazon because there are already buyers so they buy a little easier.

Have you found anything that works best for you know, something like that where they are not high enough to really get them on a webinar, but it is not really low enough or it is an impulse buy you know, have you found anything that works in that like kind of a middle range?

Eric Siu: Oh yeah. I will give you a couple of examples here. These are little more low tier but you know — I have a friend at (inaudible 12:24.8) E-commerce company and they sell leather cases right, mobile phone cases and you know, it is like you know, they were $7 to $15 product and they are literally just tried the Facebook traffic to the product page and it is actually working for them believe it or not.

And so that works and then you know, also we have a client that — they have, they sell these brushes, really nice brushes, it is a subscription service. I believe it is about $20 a month and literally yeah, Facebook traffic is going straight to the product page and that is working out.

So yeah, you know, the easy stuff people say you cannot really use Facebook to drive people directly to a product page. It does in fact, work.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, okay. I am going to have to — because I have some clients that have lower end stuff and you know, a lot of what they are doing is like — I am one — especially when people are first starting like I always try to you know get some wins first without going into paid traffic and then once the funnel is converting, then you pay traffic rather than kind of just jump to gone over right in just because I am little bit more risk-a verse that I think most people are.

So I like to do things like you know, for example, that client that I was just talking about one of the things that we are going to do is reach out the bloggers, have them review it that kind of thing you know, do like paid sponsorship type of situations that kind of thing. Just to kind of like get some feedback first you know, because it is one of those products that we have to be kind of sensitive with the objections and the way that we handle certain things. It would kind of take too long to explain it, but —

You know, brings me kind of my next one is, what are some things that you know, so you said the Gmail advertising right. So I think everybody you know, most people listening to this, they know about the like the big things you know, Facebook and Adwords and SEO and that kind of thing.

What are some — do you have any other kind of unique traffic sources that most people are not doing that they typically it makes a little bit easier to make something work you know, it kind of like the Gmail Advertising?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean, the Gmail Advertising has followed the (inaudible 14:26.6), but I think at Youtube you know, Youtube has been something that has been you know, it is the number 2 search engine in the world and still not a lot of people are giving it even though it has continued to get bigger and bigger. I mean you look at your Facebook you will see everything single day you are seeing more and more videos.

Facebook video has done well, but you know, people continue to neglect the power of Youtube advertising, but you have to think you know, you are able to retarget people. You are able to you know, to retarget or target certain channels, target certain keywords it is pretty powerful, still do not neglect Youtube advertising.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, that is a good one. And are you doing — that is one actually that I am going to be starting to do actually with this webinar course. That is one of the things I am going to test out and also for client that I am working with now. It is also — we are kind of (inaudible 15:12.2) you know.

When you are doing Youtube, is it — I am trying to think of the way to say this. When they are looking at the ads, is it — do they only pay for it if they actually watch the whole — I think there is a certain amount, they have to watch a certain number of seconds or certain percentage of the video or something like this and how that it works?

Eric Siu: Yes, so the way it works is if they click on the ad you get charge for it or it is either you have to watch 30 seconds or you finish the video, which you know, whichever one comes first. That is how it works.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice, okay. You know I guess kind of a similar question is. Are you sending people, is it like or I guess maybe kind of depends probably. Are you using that more like an opt-in kind of strategy or you are selling it right from the ad?

Eric Siu: (inaudible 15:57.2) I mean some people do opt-ins and they are getting you know, CPAs for as low as $1 to $2 or you can drive them directly to a page to sign up so either way, you know you just test it up probably (inaudible 16:08.5) and make it work.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah. I guess you know, the easy way to — I am huge you know, kind of a just hey you know, test a couple of things and see which one you know works the best and then put all of your effort into that as well and it sounds like you are kind of the same way.

You know, I think an easy way to kind of figure out where to start like what strategy to start with you know, in terms of like opt-in or just a straight sale. It is probably the price point mixed with the complexity you know like the market sophistication of whatever you are selling you know what I mean. Would you agree with that?

Eric Siu: Totally agree.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, okay. I think that — for anybody listening you know, if you want to try that out or even Gmail or whatever you know, I think it is like, if it is an easy buy you know, if it is just like hey, here is what it is, here is what it does, buy it now. Those typically tend to sell pretty well just straight from the ad versus like if you have to explain it. If the market does not really know what it is and you have to explain what it is or how it works that kind of thing, typically it is a little bit harder I think to you know, to make it work right off the bat, right.

Okay, so that is — I think that is, you know, pretty good amount of you know different traffic tips for people rather than the typical stuff do they hear or do Facebook advertising. That is like kind of it you know what I mean.

I think 9 out of 10 times it is just oh do Facebook ads you know, but yeah, I mean there are a lot of other — I am actually working with client right now who is doing a CPA offer you know, for a supplement you know, and it is like, a lot of people do not do that type of stuff you know what I mean.

There are big opportunities because everybody is doing Facebook and everybody is doing Adwords so if you find things that people are not doing there is less demand there and the clicks are less and you know, and you get CPAs that are less which is you know, which is awesome.

I think it is important to try some of this you know, some of these alternative strategies.

So with that right, so we have the traffic now we covered that. How about some you know, conversion you know, once they — so we are getting them to the page you know, how do we sell them once they are actually on the page you know, do you have any kind of you know, ninja tricks for you know, for doing that?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I do not think there is really any ninja tricks nowadays when it comes to conversion. Nothing that comes into my — I mean you can look at the digital marketer stuff, what they do when it comes to — oh dragging people to a low dollar offer like a $7 offer and then doing some upsells right after you know, some one time offer you know, you up $7 and you upsell them to you know $200 product and you can upsell like another round.

So you can use a tool (inaudible 18:48.4) to help you you know, set that whole thing up, but I mean in general, if we are going to talk about new conversion stuff that showing up. Generally, I just like to look at or conversionrateexpert just to see what they are talking about, but I have not seen anything groundbreaking in the last couple of years.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, and honestly I think that is a good thing because I think that — I used to be really, really heavy into the CRO world. I actually — conversionrateexpert actually reached out. This was a couple of years ago and they wanted me to work for them, but I am just not really an employee kind of a guy, so I said no.

I actually worked with Peep too from He is super, super smart dude.

And you know, I think when I am talking about conversions with people, I think a lot of people miss the basics you know. They want to focus, it is like, oh, what button color is or what color background or you know, what about you know, flashing arrows and then they are focusing on that stuff, but they have not really nailed down the core message right. They have not nailed down the objections. They have not nailed down the emotions of the market’s feeling or why their product is unique and like all the big thing is really you know, drive like 99% of the conversion you know what I mean, is that something you found as well?

Eric Siu: Yeah, I mean, you know, generally people will talk about the colors and things like that just because you know, they read an article but really it is about more than that. You have to look at the data. You have to survey the audience and you have to you know, come up with the hypothesis before you start doing all this run and test and I think you know, growth hackers they just launched a tool called Growth Hackers Projects where it allows you to organize all of your tests get everyone on the same page. I think that is a great tool for you know, team to start using.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. I like that. I am going to have to look that up. Because we are doing a lot too and it is like — it is sometimes it is hard to you know, organize various tests because you have a whole bunch of them going at the same time and you forget you know what is even happening with them. I am going to have to look into that. I am going to write that down.

How about you know, have you ever tested things like you know price points. I know digital marketer, (inaudible 20:55.4). He did a thing a while ago about you know, about pricing you know and I have kind of seeing the same thing. I think there is a lot of price elasticity when it comes to you know, when it comes to selling things and I have actually had a lot of different cases where a client came to me and they were selling something for whatever just say, it is $47 and we rewrote the copy and increased the price and kept the exact same conversions, but the price was you know, 50% higher.

And I think that comes down to just good copy you know what I mean. Just explain (inaudible 21:30.1) the value more you know, building up the value more and reducing the risk you know more.

So I guess you know, have you ever tested any types of pricing strategies that you have worked like that, like you know, you had one thing like I know with Ryan is one of the big things. He did was — he had a $97 and he did 2 payments in 97 and it was like the same conversions with double the price that kind of thing.

Have you ever done any test with that or any like kind of cool pricing strategies that works?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean most of the time, I think people are just you know, afraid to increase their price. I mean that is the easiest way to kind of just start to scale your business and I think you know, I have certainly you know, victim to that you know, still sometimes I will be as well, but just to give you an example you know, for some clients come to us for a marketing strategy you know, (inaudible 22:16.6) marketing strategy as you know, $1,500 offer well you know, recently we started increasing into $5,000 (inaudible 22:22.9) it is literally the same thing. We just increased the price.

So I think it is a matter of just saying, okay, well you know, I am just going to increase it you know, screw it. I am going to see how it works out and you know, we never got any complaints.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know what, how is your — how was the quality of your client has been, since you did that?

Eric Siu: You know, it is even better. I mean you know, when you increase your price, you get different types of — you get different kinds of people you know, if they are willing to pay that price, great right and they are not complaining you know, it is a different type of client versus the ones that are trying to you know, trying to negotiate that price down to you know, a $1,000 to $500 or something like that you know, it sets a different type of expectation I think.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you know, I was thinking the other day about like micro continuity sites where it is like $7 a month or $10 a month versus just you know, versus just like alright say you have you know, like which is easier if you had $10 a month and you have to get whatever a thousand people to make $10,000 a month or you can charge a $1,000 a month for some kind of like you know, lower end service and have 10 clients you know, which one is easier to service or you know, $10,000 a month and have 1 client you know what I mean.

And I think that is something that a lot of people you know, a lot of people missed you know.

When you work with people, do you look at things like that like if they have low end and you think the price can be higher or you know like when you are working with clients — I guess the question is rather than just like do you look at it more holistically versus more transaction I guess you know, things like that you know, pricing and the strategy behind it, the positioning rather than just like okay, lets us you know, do this traffic source and do this copy or whatever.

How do you work with clients when you are — you know, when they come to you and they have a problem that you are trying to solve?

Eric Siu: I mean we would not get feedback. I mean, we have you know — 1 client they have a type of service that is based off on subscriptions and we came to them saying, hey, you know, maybe your (inaudible 24:27.0) is a little too high, maybe you wanted you know, figure out, maybe making it just like a set price instead and try testing that out.

So the thing is you know, we will take a look and we will give our feedback (inaudible 24:36.9) price at first you know that is really reserved for you know, agencies out there like price intelligently that can really help nail things down and really have a more scientific process to it.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you, got you.

And how about — how does your testing process go?

So like you know, once you actually — because this is, I know from an experience you know, this is an area that a lot of people get hung up on is they will put together a funnel, right, and they are all excited and then they run traffic to it and either it totally bombs right, and it is just like does absolutely nothing or it does a little bit, but it is not quite ROI positive right and then you know, of course and that is one we will focus on and then of course the other one is they launched and it does really well and you know and that is fine (inaudible 25:18.3).

What is your process for going and actually like you know, taking a funnel that is — it is kind of showing some light you know, because some of them just do bad. The messaging is all off you know, it is just not a good product in the market but you know, I think most of them will show at least some legs you know what I mean. They show signs of life they just have to be optimized you know.

What is your process for actually going and optimizing funnels once they are actually launched?

Eric Siu: Yeah so for us I mean we do not specifically specialize in funnels, but (inaudible 25:51.5) mostly for our own stuff I mean, when it comes to testing especially with ads I mean usually what you see with people is that they will say, okay you know, we have this $5,000 budget you know, let us test like a $100 or $200 a day and let us spread it over you know a certain amount of time.

Our thing is we rather just put all that money up front and then collect all the data as quickly as we can. Get that data and then you know, try to (inaudible 26:13.3) shall we continue on with this? Are we seeing traffic with it? If we are seeing traffic let us continue and move on.

So we are looking for any signs of you know, growth and then you know that is how we kind of continue to innovate.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

I am on the same way you know, I rather just get it all out there because why wait 2 months when you can just get it in a week you know, and then you could spend the next 7 weeks tweaking it you know what I mean and seeing you know, seeing what is wrong in that kind of thing.

So when you are looking at results you know, are there any — are there any certain KPIs that you, you know, that you typically look at —

For anybody who does not know the term, Key Performance Indicators. Any certain matrix that you look at as kind of like a benchmark?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean there is a lot (inaudible 26:57.3) I am sure you do that too, (inaudible 27:00.4) we are looking at cost per acquisition you know, we are looking at — or cost per acquisition, cost per lead whatever you want to call it and then we are looking if that numbers increase and decrease in overtime and then we also wanted to look at you know, also how much volume we are driving and you know, you can look at other matrix such as you know, click the rate as well, conversion rates too. Those are kind of the you know, the matrix that we look at and also cost per click too.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and there is also going to be — I think that is a good summary of like the you know, the basic one. Then there is — you know, for different industries there will be a couple other like you know, specific-like industries, specific lines.

Eric Siu: Yeah, the lifetime value things like that. It really depends and yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, sounds good.

Alright. Well, hey you know, I have a blast. I have learned a lot. I guess my last question is, is there any you know, is there a question that I have not asked or something that — that you want the audience to know before you get off, that you would you know, you feel bad if you got off and they did not hear this one big tip.

Eric Siu: No. I think that’s about it you know, if you are into marketing just listen to marketing school every single day. Give us feedback and give us topic ideas because we are always aching for more.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely.

And before you hop off. Let everybody know where you know, where they can find you.

Eric Siu: Yeah, absolutely. Just go to and then you can find me on that podcast or you can go to to listen to the podcast with myself and Neil.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good.

And for everyone listening, those will be in the show notes as usual and I also give my personal recommendation you know, for his podcast. They are topnotch you know, like I said, I listen to you know, to the one Neil Patel literally every morning which is cool while I am making my coffee and it is a good just kind of you know, quick insight you know, kind of just gives you new idea, nice little you know, spark I guess for the day and yeah, it is a good stuff.

It was great having you on. Thanks for coming on.

Eric Siu: Alright. Thanks for having me Jeremy.

Jeremy Reeves: Sure.

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