Jonathan Friedman On Using Digital Body Language To Increase Conversions

In this episode, we talk with Jonathan Friedman, the founder of an amazing new tool called “Reactful”. It allows you to take advantage of the behavior your visitors are taking on your site and react to them in real-time, which of course boosts conversions.

In this episode, we go deep into the psychology about why this approach works so well and how you can implement it into your business. Enjoy!

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Resources Mentioned

* Reactful
* Kinowear

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Hey guys and girls, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today we have on the line Jonathan Friedman and he is the founder and CEO of Reactful which you are going to find really, really interesting.

Basically, I am going to let Jonathan kind of tell you exactly what it does, but just from my perspective basically what Reactful does is when people are on your website, when they are on your various pages, it does not matter what page, it could be your home page, your sales page, you know, whatever it is. You can set different triggers to happened when they do certain behaviors on your website.

So you know, I am going to let him kind of explain the nitty-gritty details about that but everybody on this you know that is listening to me knows that I am a huge, huge, huge believer in behavior-based marketing and that is exactly what this is except now you can do it right on your website, you know, most of the stuffs that I talked about is doing it via email campaigns, you know, if they stay at certain pages or whatever, you send them into a certain you know, certain email sequence. With Reactful, you can actually do it based on like their behavior on the site whether you have their, you know, their email or not.

So it is a really, really, really cool tool. I have been kind of playing around with it this morning. I am going to start my own test both on my own — on and then also my side businesses. I am going to start using it with some clients. It is a really, really cool tool and I want to have Jonathan to kind of tell you, you know, his story why they built it, what it does, you know, what it can do for your conversions and your site and yes, so let us get into it.

So Jonathan how are you?

Jonathan Friedman: I am doing well. Thank you Jeremy, thanks for having me.

Jeremy Reeves: Sure, sure, sure, yeah. You know, when you reached out and I took a look at it, I always like to do kind of a test run, you know, I never want to recommend anything that I have not tried myself and I would not, you know, use myself and so I got into it this morning and it was just, it is amazing, you know, I was talking you know before we started the podcast that one of the big things that I like, you know, the whole what it does with this is I mean it is a complete no brainer because, you know, I mean it is almost impossible not to increase your conversions because you are showing people things based on their actual behavior, but what I really was, was happy to see, I am a huge, huge stickler with software that is easy to use like I never — I guess I am just part of like just the apple thing like, you know, there is never instruction manuals with anything apple it is just you picked it up and it works and you know how to do it.

And I was really happy that when I started kind of playing around with Reactful that is exactly how it was, like I did not have to look anything up. I did not have to figure out like okay, how does this work it just like — it just popped up and you just, you know, you start testing stuff. So you know, good job on the — you know, the design of everything, you know.

But tell everybody, you know, give your own kind of summary of —

Jonathan Friedman: Your feel.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, your own feel of you know, tell us your story. Tell us — first of all why you created Reactful and then also you know, what it does and how it can help people.

Jonathan Friedman: Sure. Maybe I will start from why we actually started building this.

Jeremy Reeves: Sure.

Jonathan Friedman: So we started out — actually, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs have stories where they said, yeah, you know, I was walking home and I could not find a — I do not know a car so I build a car business. So for us it was not that way.

Actually, I had started before. We sold software to HR. Eventually, I managed to sell it but it was not a huge success and what I said is okay, I want to do B to B but never sell to HR ever again.

And we started looking up, okay, who would you want to work with and really quickly we saw that marketers and you know, the digital managers, the people that kind of tried to get the corporate message across with people who want to work with, they are agile, they are hip, they are friendly, everything we want to have and they have budgets and they want to work with them and get results and if you can them their results they will work with you.

There was kind of (inaudible 11:46) and when we (inaudible 11:48) start talking to these people is that there was a huge, huge gap between what they were expected to do and their actual abilities.

So you know if you are marketer somewhere and your boss says, Hey, get me a lot of leads and okay you need to start you know, often you do not know how to analyze data. You do not know how to program. You do not know how to design. You do not know how to kind of work your website in any such way. You need a lot of different people to kind of help you out and in order to do the smallest change and your website is usually your biggest legion (inaudible 12:21) machine.

And when we saw that, we said, okay, there is a huge gap here of skills how could we make empower marketers and that is how we started building Reactful.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice, I like it. Yes, so tell everybody, you know, what is it actually — and obviously, I already know, but you know, tell everybody what it does on your site kind of — in your own words and kind of bring it back to like how it helps them you know, make more money, increase their conversions that kind of thing.

Jonathan Friedman: Sure. So Reactful lets you react to your visitors digital body language on the site. So when your visitors are on there. They are touching website in all kind of ways. You know, they are scrolling, they are clicking somewhere, they are visiting different pages, they stay for different times, Reactful knows how to read all these subtle behaviors and interpret higher level human behaviors out of it.

So for example, we can know if someone is hesitating, if someone is interested in reading a piece of ticks rather than skimming it. If someone is confuse, if someone is about to exit, if someone stopped the video in the middle. All kind of interesting things like that and not only do we inform the marketer about them, we also let you react and the reaction part is just a visual change that happens in real time.

And then it can also be anything, it can be a button shaking suddenly when someone is confused. It can be a message coming up from the top, the bottom of the site. It can be highlighting a piece of ticks. It can be a folding the whole element in 3D and showing a message behind it. Different kind of visualizations.

And then the system also test all these kind of reactions you set up and tells you if they were actually successful in helping you increase your conversion.

So there are many scenarios you can work with. You can say, okay, if someone is confused on this part of my about page, I want to shake this buttons likely and have them notice that or if someone is about — if someone stops my video on my you know product page, then I want to have a message saying, Hey, you know that what I want to say, you have a 10% coupon you know if you know, that is what I wanted to say, that is my bottom line.

There are many, many scenarios you can enable based on your anonymous, the anonymous behavior of your visitors in real time.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it. Yes, so 1 example of this I am — you know, you guys know I have Kinowear, the site that shows guys how to dress better and we are in the process of testing the text sales letter versus the VSL to see you know which, you know, which one converts better.

So one of the things that I am — and this is just one idea of you know many that I have so far, but one of the things that we are going to try is play the video and you can actually — there is all kinds of different triggers that you can use. So there is you know, timer, there is — if they are idle on the page, if they complete a goal, if they are exiting the page, if you know, if they click certain thing, if they are you know, filling up a form and they leave it, if they — you know, in my case, you can do things with video, right. So if they finished the video, you can have something happened, maybe it is a — you know, maybe the form pops up or whatever or maybe it is something you have a button that pops up and says, you know, keep scrolling down or you know whatever it is.

You can also do things if like once they actually play it and most importantly I think with video, this one is really cool is if they pause the video, you know.

One of the scenarios that I am going to test you know, a lot of my audience they might pause it because, you know, they are watching the video maybe they get in, I do not know, 5 minutes and then they pause it because they get distracted, right.

Well you do not want them to — you do not want them to like be distracted for too long you know, maybe they are distracted only for a second you know, someone comes and ask them a question and then they go and hit play again, but you do not know if that is going to happen. You do not know why they are distracted, but you do know that they are distracted .

So one of my ideas was to say, okay, well if they press pause, why do not we have a little form pop up that says, Hey you know, you may have gotten distracted, do you want us to just send you the text version of this video and then that way they can — and you know, and will test with an opt-in form with just a button to see you know kind of which one does better but that way, you know, they are on the video and if they do pause it then — like, you know in your head the kind of behavior they are taking is, well, they got distracted for some reason.

So you do not want them to just kind of leave the page. You want to be able to follow up with them. So you could send them you know, the text letter. And that is just kind of one you know one idea of a lot that I have but it is really — there is a lot of you know, kind of different triggers that you can do and there is a lot of ways, a lot of different things that you can test which is you know, which is really cool, you know.

So why don’t you tell us about you know, some of the — some of the things that you guys and your clients and stuff. Why don’t you tells us about some actual tests you know that people have been doing and some of the results that people are getting with it.

Jonathan Friedman: Sure. So based — the stuff you mentioned so for example someone pausing the video and someone you know, watching the video all the way to the end or if someone is starting to play a video and also all the other the confusion (inaudible 17:45) to idle. All these we create them to — think about the physical world, if you were sitting in a store, imagine you can sit you know, kind of shrink yourself and sit on your site and watch every visitor as they go by and kind of strike a conversation with them based on what they are doing.

So if they you know, take forever to move from 1 page to another you can say, Hey buddy is everything okay, you finding what you are looking for, and if someone goes straight to the check out page and starts saying up (inaudible 18:13) you know goes really quick, you can say, Hey great, do you want that as well because this is also something you might be interested in.

So I mean this kind of conversation you can strike up with random and anonymous visitors in real life if you are sitting in the physical store. Those are 2 things you can do in digital store or digital site. And these are all kinds of things are customer test.

For example, classic what we had is when a visitor is idle on the page and idle means if they are not touching their mouse or keyboard for certain amount of time or they are in different tab and they did not come back meaning that they are on your site but they are not really on your site I mean you know, with their mind.

Jeremy Reeves: It is kind of like when you talk to somebody and your listening but you are actually thinking about something else. It is kind of the same thing.

Jonathan Friedman: Exactly and you know and then what happens you know, if you are in kind of conversation like that and your friends suddenly says, you know, Hey Jim, and then you are like, wait, you know, you kind of wake up to it then you are back in the conversation.

So same thing in the digital world, I mean that we idle, meaning the session does not flow like a normal session would. There is something, you know, there was a holdup, it does not mean it is a bad holdup necessarily, but it was one, and it is good to know and if you can react and kind of do something about it is even better.

So classic one was reacting to all kind of visitors who are idle in different cases of your website. If they idle on your homepage maybe you know, maybe you do not want to do anything because it is such an early kind of page, look maybe if they are idle doing some kind of checkout flow maybe then you would want to do something.

For example, one of our customers InsideView, they were testing just with idle visitors, they spotlighted a form that they have on the page. The used it on the direct (inaudible 20:12) with many pages and what they saw is that when people are idle on it when they came back and they highlighted just — highlighting means that the form gets kind of light on it where everything else is slightly dim and they saw that little effect that almost looks, sound silly in the way, but that kind of refocuses people on the form and actually got a lot more. They have almost double the conversion rate just from doing that.

And you know, on the directory, it was the case where you know, people come in and they usually they are like there and then they go out. It was not like you know a very clear flow on the main website. It was just directory which I used to kind of source people and people come in and out and if people are idle there you know, they go to the another page and get distracted and then they come back, they are like, what was I doing, never mind and they close and go away.

Suddenly when they had like, Oh, okay, interesting then you know, (inaudible 21:09) continue and you can save some of these visitors and get them to sign up.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it, yeah I mean — it is very powerful you know, in what you can do you know, I keep saying that but it really is. I am so excited that there is you know, I have been telling people for years and years and years to do this type of stuff but the kind of the roadblock you know, the hurdle of it was the software you know, because it is only really like in the last I do not know, 6 or 12 months that like all these really cool kind of behavioral software has been coming out you know, I know HubSpot has some stuff but that is you know, tons and tons of money, I think it is like $15k or something like that.

You know, it is just, things are getting better and better and better and the more you know it really comes down to the fact that the more that you can predict your customer, the higher conversions that you are going to be you know and you can kind of only go like I mean part of my job when I am writing copies is to predict what people are going to think you know what I mean.

So the more that you understand the market, the higher your conversions it going to be you know on average. But what is really cool is you know with this you can do it based on like actual behavior they are taking you know what I mean, and it is — I am really excited for it. I am trying to add it — I was telling you I have a really short week this week because I am going on vacation but I am trying to add it to my to do list to get the test set up and started. So I am really excited to test it.

Jonathan Friedman: What you are saying is completely true I mean we are merging more and more with our technology. We are using more and more I mean probably I do not know about you but you know me and my cellphone and I am guessing you as well probably most of the listeners. You know, you cannot live without your cellphone or your computer. Some part of your technology is really part of you and the better machines get understanding humans understanding behaviors and then they can predict what we want and give it to us the more human-like it will feel and that experience — if you can do that for your, when you are trying to do conversion and you also can predict what your people are thinking you know, whether it is copy, whether it is using Reactful or almost anything if you can kind of make your — well you can think about your site as kind of software, if you can make it more reactful I would say, it is just like — we called it emotional intelligence sometimes. You can kind of understand humans better than, yeah, you can do a lot and you can surprise the visitors that you have and kind of get better conversations with them. That is what we are trying to be part of.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah you know and I think, you know, you are on something good here you know. I was telling you if I own a SAS company and this is something along the lines of something that I would build myself you know what I mean.

You know and I am not going to be competing do not worry, I have no plans you know, I have no plans in the near future to do any software. It is on my plate for sometime but I do not know what I can do yet.

But I know this is like the type of thing that I would do so I am glad that, you know, that it is out there.

So yeah, I mean, you know, if — I am trying to — I have a question, but I am trying to think of how to — how to word it the right way. Where do you think is a good place for people to start, you know, like when they are looking at their conversions and you know everybody kind of goes and you know, you kind of have like your own you know theory of what is going to work and what is not. That is why I like in the conversion testing where it was like you know, you can come up with a hypothesis first and then you build a test around your hypothesis and all that fun stuff.

But like when you are, you know, when you are thinking off so let us just say that is somebody is looking at you know they put in a code to start it. Do you have like any kind of you know process that you go through, because there are so many different like I have it up right now so I am just going to click getting reaction.

So alright, so I have it up on my services page right now. So let us just say that you know, you pick a page on your site, you have the code on there and the — I wish people could see it right now. Unfortunately, it is just an audio but you know, I have the software up and I am you know kind of in like okay, now what test do I make.

You know, do you have any, any kind of advice for people on how to, how to choose what to actually do you know, like what to actually test you know because there are so many different options that a lot of times people get like kind of decision fatigue you know, they get paralyzed by so many different options they can take you know, do you have any advice for people on how to actually when you are looking and they say, okay, you know, here is what I am going to do first.

Jonathan Friedman: Sure. That is a very, very good question. So when we build the studio, we called it (inaudible 26:18) reaction studio where you can actually program to trigger and then the reactions that will come and responds to these triggers.

What we thought, it was very early on (inaudible 26:29) okay, great, look (inaudible 26:30) marked as a tool and they will build a great stuff and they do, but we thought the second question almost like when we came out there and showed it to the different customers. The second question was, but you have been doing a lot of (inaudible 26:44) right, can you tell me what they should do (inaudible 26:47) focus on so that was the main question and I wish actually I wish I could already show you the next version that is coming up next month. It is huge. It is a huge, huge, overall, the one of the major things that is going to come there is what we called revelations. So revelations, like you mentioned, there are tons and tons and tons of way to slice and dice your website information and your visitors information according to so many variables and different patterns, that it is sometimes hard to think okay what should I tweak, should I think about returning visitors, should I target confused visitors, should I target confused visitors from Australia you know, all these are valid questions you can easily kind of drown in the sea of information or data.

You know the problem is not lack of data. There are tons of data out there and there are many, many, many tools that give you data. When we (inaudible 27:45) simplicity common from before is how to make it simple and easy.

So the (inaudible 27:53) coming up there is a revelation section and the revelation is actually the system learning your site coming up with an interesting analysis, so saying, Hey look, people start filling out the form in your about page but 7.5% of them stop midway and then we also recommend how to react to that. We can tell you, Hey, you should react with a tooltip which is actually true, you should react with a tooltip that will show up in real time and tell them to continue and try that. And how do we know it works because we have tons of clients were they implemented this kind of reaction (inaudible 28:30).

And then with 1 click you can click on react now and launch that reaction. So not only do we scan your sites to find interesting piece of data that you should probably kind of be interested to look at. You will be able to launch a reaction and fix it and measure it with 1 click.

Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. I like that. You know, that is — yeah I mean I know — I know just from coaching clients you know, and working with clients you know, both like the you know, the coaching side and the done for you side. I know that a lot of in action comes from not knowing how to prioritize you know what I mean because you know, a lot of, I mean there are so many like you know, everybody listening to this, think of your to do list you know, just in your head, at any given time, there is like 50 to 1000 different things you know, kind of rolling through your head all at the same time and that is because overwhelming. You are dealing with your employees, you are dealing with you know, your conversion rate, coming up with new products or email sequences, your pages, I mean it is like it goes on and on and on and on.

So you know, a lot of like every pretty much every entrepreneur listening to this or I mean in the world knows that they should be testing different things you know. The problem is there are so many things to start with that so many people they do not start at all, you know what I mean.

It is kind of like you know, when you started to diet, it is like, Oh my God, why do I have to change all these things. They just start with one thing you know, getting to nail that down and go to the next thing, nail that down and go to the next thing and all of the sudden, you know, you are in really good shape, you know what I mean.

It is kind of the same thing with this. So I love that, that you are actually helping people like giving suggestions, you know what I mean.

I have a whole system for you know, making decisions you know. I always narrow it down whatever it is at, whether it is 10 or 100, I narrowed it down to 3 and then I pit A against B and then the winner of that against C, you know what I mean. For me, that works really well rather than like okay, there is 10 things you know, which one do I want to go with and you are like, Oh my God, oh my God, you know, there is so many choices.

Well if you just narrow that down to 3 which is pretty easy, it is really not that hard. You can usually pick like a top 3 that you know, that you think you would go with and then you just do one against one and then the winner of that one goes against the last one and then you have your winner, you know what I mean.

Jonathan Friedman: It is smart.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it works for me. Everybody has their own, you know, their own ways of doing things but that works well for me, but —

Jonathan Friedman: It is a real issue, I mean, I have seen a pep talk about it that when he said, the decisions actually that kind of freedom to decide and when you go to the supermarket there are million things there, million box of cereals that you potential could like. Actually makes you less happy with the cereal you end up choosing just because you are thinking about all the other cereals that you did not take. So it is kind of funny that you know, it kind of works the other way and especially with this stuff, you are right the marketers have so many things on their head. Their boss says that, Hey you got to do this, you got to do that and they know they head will roll if they won’t do everything and testing requires time, it requires sitting in front of data thinking, hypothesizing, putting it in, creating processes in a little time even if they can do it, they do not have the time and they do not have the kind of mental energy to start this kind of processes.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I wonder if and maybe guys do this, but I wonder if it would be, I wonder if it would be useful to somehow link it to like analytics and I wonder if you can get ideas you know, from analytics you know, like you know, maybe time on page or I do not know, something like that, like get basically get information from analytics that would then kind of update in their suggested to do list, if you will. I wonder if that would be, because that is kind of how, that is how(inaudible 32:25) when I am making decisions either for one of my businesses or my clients or whatever, I always start with the data, you know, like what is the data say, you know, how — if you are looking like if you are trying to test open rates will you go back and you look at you know, the past emails that you sent, okay well you know, which ones got the best open rates and what is the common theme in all these you know, and then you kind of just go like that.

Same thing with you know, a lot of different page testing you know, (inaudible 32:52) you know, look at heat maps and look at videos of people going through the site and you know, and use that to make, to basically come up with a hypothesis which then you know, you come up with you know, whatever you are going to test. I wonder if you could, that would be interesting to kind of look at that.

Jonathan Friedman: (inaudible 33:14) with Google Analytics but it is more for the reporting side meaning they get all the events and then we have plans to integrate and kind of grab past data and also get a lot of your goals so if you — if it put in goals within your Google Analytics we could draw them in and kind of use them as well.

So you are right, I mean, it is definitely — I mean, if you want to do optimization, it is always the same flow, it is data insight change or action and then measurement and so yeah, the first obvious step is starting from data.

A lot of times people (inaudible 33:52) run for a week just silent without doing any change or anything just to grab some data and then kind of see what they you know, different things they can test and try that. But the nice thing is because I mean, it is so easy — I mean you can — it is so easy to do and also there are so many false positive luckily you know where in the conversion space and not medical or anything. For false positives are not bad obviously you do not want a lot of them but if you start out with a few positives you had in your head you know, I think what, Hey, you know, this (inaudible 34:26) pages kind of confusing how about I launch a reaction to say give another message to people or confused you know ear.

And if that does not turn up well it is okay you know, it might be that it is just does not even a negative consequences just neutral, so that is also not good but it is not, it did not destroy anything.

So it is fine to (inaudible 34:46) start and also play around and you know, but if you have data, obviously start from that, that is the best way to start any optimization process.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I actually got an idea — there is so many God, there are so many different ways that you can use this like I just thought while you are talking, if you do your let us see, what it is called, it is called confused right. So you can just click on element and then confused and then put it like in you know, in a section where you are seen and you can you know, like going into the data first if you had heat maps or something you know, and you saw like a cold area you know, then just use this to highlight that cold area and do like the you know, confused element and then just have a little like pop up or something that comes up and says, Hey, you know, is this confusing to you, you know what I mean and then you just have people click yes or no and then you know, and then maybe the second part is if they click yes, you put you know what is confusing (inaudible 35:45) like what don’t you understand and then you get feedback you know, like real-time feedback from visitors and then you change it, you know what I mean.

I think I am going to actually use that one. I am a big, big, fan of doing surveys on pages you know what I mean. Exit pops surveys or something like Hey why don’t you buy you know that kind of thing I mean people tell you, you know, they — if people — I am you know, one of my philosophies that is that you know, a lot of people kind of like (inaudible 36:16) you know, they are like afraid of selling and it is like look if people would not be on your site if they weren’t interested in buying you know, what you have or they weren’t interested maybe not buying what you have but they have a problem that they are trying to solve you know what I mean.

In your case it is, you know, low conversions you know, in a lot of my case it is lower conversions you know. So that is the problem so it is like they have that problem so you know, if they read your page if they come and they have problem A and your solution solves problem A and for some reason they do not buy well that means there is a disconnect somewhere on the page you know, maybe they are just in the wrong you know, kind of (inaudible 36:58) whatever it is, but there is a disconnect somewhere so if you do surveys and you do things like this where you can actually ask them questions about why they did not buy well most people tell you, well not most people but you will find that like if you have enough volume, you will find, you will get really, really good answers. I have done this you know, all of my sites and you know, client sites and stuff like that. You get really good answers and people is like, Hey, you know, I was here to look and see if you could help me solve A well, you know, I read your page and it does not seem like you can so then they will tell you why, you know what I mean.

Jonathan Friedman: What you call disconnect, we in Reactful internally we call the missing piece. So there is some kind of missing piece and exactly right, I mean, we call this the “maybes” so you know, you have maybes on your sites. You have people that buy, you have people that won’t buy because they are not interested in this problem but if you — like you said the people that have this problem and they are looking at your site, they are the “maybes” they have high purchases but there is a missing piece if they do not end up buying and if you can identify what it is either with surveys or you know, different means and give it to them that works well.

With Reactful we are (inaudible 38:10) real time. Real time is the best way to try to kind of (inaudible 38:15) the missing piece because every time afterwards yes you can get them back it is just harder I mean you work a lot with emails which is obviously a great way to get people back, but it is just you know, you need expertise, you need to do a lot of work which is great I mean, you should obviously use MeMail as well. Do not just use Reactful but if you can somehow fix it in real time you save people from entering that campaign if you get — already kind of fix it already on spot.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah I mean I see, I see it you know, a ton of different ways that this can, this can help you but I know I am going to be using it. Is there anything else you know, that you think people should know before we you know, hop off.

Jonathan Friedman: Well, we are launching a huge new version. It is coming up, it will come up end of April. You should definitely check it out. It has I think you know, we have been working for so long and the new version really (inaudible 39:13) everything we have kind of envisioned when we started building Reactful and so yeah, definitely check it out when it comes out and you know, feel free to (inaudible 39:24) or play with it today it is a really cool product I think and I hope, I hear you guys do. That is it. I would be happy if anyone you know, (inaudible 39:34) behavioral, digital behavior or just analytics I am happy to discuss. I have a lot of things I learned over the way, I am happy to share. Yeah, that is it.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. Well, if everybody wants to go check it out which by the way, I highly, highly, highly recommend you do because it’s a really cool piece of software and I actually do not even know how much is it by the way.

Jonathan Friedman: Well, it ranges for low traffic websites it starts from $300 a month and you know, it goes up with traffic and the amount of domains you have, but it is not the crazy expensive tool and the high-end it can be a few thousand dollars depending on how many if it’s you know, depending on traffic and domains.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know, I always think of things in terms of ROIs so even say you are making I do not know, I mean like a 10% increase is like nothing, you know what I mean. That is so easy, it is ridiculous. So if you figure — if you are making you know, $3000 a month and you increase 10% you already paid for it you know.

If you are making you know $30k a month, all you need is a 1% increase in your conversions to pay for this, you know what I mean. So it is a total no brainer but yeah, if anybody — if anybody wants to go to check it out its and yeah go check it out if you have any questions for me you know, I am happy to answer them kind of just to I am not getting paid or anything like that to answer them, you know, kind of just to start a dialogue and you know, I like talking about marketing and yeah go and check it out and you know, ask me or John if you have any — if you have any questions, if you want to you know, see if should be kind of you know, right for your website you know, if you are doing any kind of volume whatsoever it is definitely a game changer basically because you know, you can kind of you know increase conversions on the fly. You can answer objections on the fly based on the actual behavior they are taking on your website and it is you know, I mean that is just, it is so powerful to crazy so yeah, I highly recommend checking it out.

John, before hop off anything else that you like to add.

Jonathan Friedman: No, I really enjoyed being on the show. Thank you very much for having me and yeah, I will be happy to stay in touch and talk marketing from time to time.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. Alright, well guys I will talk to you soon. As always, if you enjoy this episode, share it with your friends, leave us a review and all that fun stuff and yeah, we will talk to you soon.

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