Joseph Sanok On Funnels In Obscure

In today’s episode, we have Joseph Sanok on the line. Joseph decided to specialize in showing other counselors how to market their businesses so they can enjoy more time actual counseling and less time marketing, which is something they typically don’t like doing. In this episode, we discuss how he’s getting great results and how to apply them in YOUR business even if you’re not in the service industry!

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Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast.

Today, I have on the line Joseph Sanok, and Joe is a small business consultant and he focuses — I think this is kind of a cool interview. He focuses on the health sector with counselors in private practice, coaches, and consultants.

He has been featured on Huffington Post and yahoo news and which is kind of cool. He has the number 1 podcast for counselors in private practice.

So we are going to dig in and you guys know that I have been kind of bringing people on the podcast lately that are not in our typical space if you will, you know, the internet marketing kind of space because that is becoming just crazy anymore with a bunch of nonsense.

So I want to bring Joe on and kind of get his unique insights into a totally different market and then bring it back and show you guys how to implement everything he is doing in your business.

So Joe, welcome.

Joseph Sanok: Thanks so much for having me Jeremy.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I appreciate you coming on.

So before we get into all the good stuff, tell everybody a little bit more about what you do.

Joseph Sanok: Yeah. So I am mental health counselor. So when you think about coming in and sitting on somebody’s couch and talking about divorce and you know, parenting issues that is what I have done for most of my career, but in 2009, my private practice, I started to grow it kind of on the side, and in 2015, it had grown so much that I was able to leave my full-time job.

And really that was because I figured out a number of key ways to level up my career, sales funnels being one of those to really be able to charge more not just in counseling, but as a consultant to counselors. To really talk about the tools it takes to grow an effective business.

And so as I have done that, I have launched podcast. I have done a number of other things to just teach counselors and people that have small businesses about how to continue to grow and how to level up.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. I love it you know. I see you have done interviews with a bunch of kind of cool that I know. Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, Chris Tucker, Rob Bell, Glennon Doyle Melton, and J.V. Crum III. I never heard him.

Joseph Sanok: Yeah. He is the Conscious Millionaire. He is the Conscious Millionaire podcast. You know, it is funny, I have not heard of him until he reached out to be on my show and then as I search to learn more from him. We are putting together a conference called Blueprint to 100K that is going to be coming out in October 2016 in Denver. He is a cool guy.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. I like it.

So let us get into, let us see. Let us start because I know we can talk about all kinds of different things.

You went into a pretty competitive field you know, basically everything is competitive anymore, but you know, what did you do to make yourself kind of stand out, and first of all, why did you choose that specialty.

Joseph Sanok: Well, you know, for me, business was really something that I had a terrible feeling about. Early in college, I sell vacuum cleaners door to door. Learn some really bad business practices and so I thought business was this like slimy feel it seemed like all the guys I met in college they were majoring in business were just like the kind of guys that did not want to hang out with it.

No offense to any business majors out there.

But you know, then when I started to read some books and learn about some of the basics of marketing and business, I realized I had not learned any of that in graduate school, in counseling, and psychology, but I was supposed to be running a private practice. I was supposed to be creating programs and getting people to make buying decisions, but I had zero classes in marketing, businesses, sales, and copy.

And so as I learned this, I actually had my why behind it of being really you know, excited about helping angry kids and frustrated parents and distant couples. Then, business actually started to matter to me.

That has been the common story for especially counselors that have gone through kind of traditional counseling programs where for them it is just business is not taught and so as I learned I thought, well I am just going to start a blog, talking about what I am learning to be a co-learner.

And so it really, it was more of an experiment at first to see is there a market here. I did very little market research which actually you know, usually I suggest people do some market research to see if there is — any market research or anything out there that are already kind of selling, but for me it was actually really good because I did not have any kind of copying of other people’s material. I was not influenced by other private practitioners.

It really, I think, helped me create what I thought would be the best kind of version of learning about business as a private practice owner.

And then really, I just kept following my curiosity and so I was a big fan of — still, I am a fan of Pat Flynn. I feel like as I thought about how do I build passive income. How do I grow my own kind of leveling up so that I can charge more beyond just the counseling session. How do I meet influencers in the field. It was natural to say, well how do I best connect with my audience and so a podcast was really one of the first things that I was looking at.

And I think the one big piece of advice to your audience is to look at where there are less people.

At the time that I launched my private practice, there was only 1 other podcast that was aimed at counselors and private practice and that was the American Counseling Associations podcast and they had been dormant for about 6 months.

So when I launched that podcast specifically for counselors and private practice, right away, it was the number 1 podcast.

Now, there is a lot that are in the field now, but there is a ton of examples of people doing this you know, back in the day, there was just one kind of tire, and so people would say, we are the oldest tire company.

But then, you know, tire companies came out and added an extra you know, millimeter and they said, we are the thickest tire company you know, the longest lasting. So they created new markets and I think that is where you can really quickly level up and differentiate yourself by figuring out where is the nobody or where is the you know, just a handful of people that are not doing it well and how can I positioned myself to be number 1 in that area right away.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, absolutely you know, and I think that is a pretty common thing that people do not do you know what I mean.

You have to you know, you have to go into a niche that has competitors because if you do not, I mean the most — I mean unless you are coming out something that is totally brand new like you know, the Ipod when it was first released or something like that.

You have to go into something that has competitors but not — you have to be able to then specialize yourself so that it is — like you said, only a handful you know what I mean.

Joseph Sanok: But even the Ipod for example, I mean that was — there are already so many MP3 players that were terrible at that time. When that came out they all — a lot of those had (inaudible 7:07.4) or they would not load enough songs or it takes so much time.

And so even looking at what is happening and where people are doing a really shoddy job and how do you just take that shoddy job and make it a little bit better.

I mean there are so many of those strategies that you can just look at the current market and say, how can I improve on this. What is the part of this that is super annoying to people. I do not have to reinvent it. I can just take the annoying part out.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Take the annoying part out. That is actually a really good one. I like that. That is awesome.

Let us see. So, what do you do you know, for actually — so you have the podcast, what else are you doing in your marketing you know, if you have the sales funnel you know, what else are you doing to help you kind of stand out in that market or is it just podcast?

Joseph Sanok: No, no. I think the podcast was a great way to connect with other influencers not just in the field of counseling, but people that are outside of it. Like people like yourself are talking about things that applied to counselors in private practice, but is a totally different field.

So I referenced that connection with J.V. Crum III. He is not helping counselors in private practice. He is helping people that want to go from usually about 200 thousand a year to a million dollars a year.

That is like his main focus. So the podcast has been the great place where I can find those partnerships that can help me level up my own career.

So conferences and mini conferences has been a great way for me to do that and so we do a lot of sales funnel that we can talk about for that, but for example, for the last 2 years, in (inaudible 8:38.6) I have hosted with a couple of my other consulting friends, the most awesome kind of friends and so that is 3 grand per person. We have between 30 and 40 people come to that and we have probably about 30 grand in sponsors that come on board as well.

We have a food truck pulling every day. We have massage therapist, pool side. We have you know, baristas cooking up espresso for people.

Everyone gets their own headshots and 1 minute video. Individual coaching with each of the coaches as well as kind of some teachings.

So that has been another thing that has helped me continue to level up my career where when you are creating events, when you are creating the teachings and bringing in together people that maybe even farther ahead in their career than you are, that can then build that assumption that well there are these 3 other consultants that are at this level. Joe must be at that same level as these people. When in reality, it is like, well let us bring together some great minds that maybe are doing things that are beyond what I am doing, but now I am lumped into that same cohort that I was not in 3 years ago.

So the more that you can do that where you are genuinely helping other people in their career and especially people that maybe a step or two ahead of you, I mean they are not you know, the Pat Flynns that are already well known, you want the people that are just a couple of steps ahead of you.

And finding where you have those natural emotional connections. I was interviewing this guy recently and we just got along so well and you know, we scheduled a 15-minute call for kind of later in a month, that we are going to brainstorm like should we put on a conference together. Is there some synergy here, and he has done some amazing key notes. So from a speaking perspective, he is way ahead of me, but when it comes to selling e-courses and doing conferences, he has not done that and so we may have synergy, we may not.

So I think that finding those natural relationships and then informing your sales funnel through that is where the authenticity comes out and that is what people want to buy is the authenticity and the genuine helpfulness to them.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. You know, I totally agree and it really — let me ask you this. Do you think that type of stuff would not happen if you did not specialized?

Joseph Sanok: I mean it could have happened, but I think the best part of the specialty is that you can get hyper focused and make tools in the area that nobody else can keep up with.

You can say I am helping counselors in private practice. You can make infographics. You can have you know, a member’s newsletter. You can have all these different levels of products that are in hyper niche market, and by specializing, it has allowed me then to charge a higher premium as well because nobody else is doing that you know.

If you just say I help people with online marketing. Okay, great. There is a lot of people that do that. How do you stand out when you are looking at online marketing. What is it that you bring to the people that is different and so I even have consulting clients that are you know, in their 20s that I would say, okay, Snapchat is taking off right now. Why don’t you become a Snapchat consultant rather than a social media consultant.

Businesses want to jump in to Snapchat, but they do not even know what it is. You know that inside and out like you could charge $100 to $200 and you are like a freshman in college.

And so really finding where are those hyper niche areas I think is where you can really level up the amount that you can charge as well.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely you know.

It is kind of like — I always like to bring it back to the doctor analogy you know, that you can be a like a general doctor and make like, whatever they make like $100 to $120 grand a year something like that. Obviously, depending on where you are living or you could be you know, my brother-in-law is a cardiologist you know, he is probably making I do not know around $350 grand or so.

So it is like 3.5 times income and then the next level from that is something like a brain surgeon and they are probably making I do not know upwards you know, at least a high 6 figures maybe even 7 you know what I mean.

It really just — the more niche you get and also not even the more niche, but the more responsibility I think that you have on your hands, the more you get paid you know what I mean.

Joseph Sanok: Absolutely. And I think that it is also like what are the tools that people are using. And so, you know, the average counselors are going to charge $70 to maybe you know, I know a couple of counselors that — they are like $300s in L.A. maybe $500 if you are super specialized and really focusing on a specific niche, but what are those people using to be able to do it because if I can teach someone how to go from $100 an hour to $200 an hour like I am now worth way more than $200 an hour because I am just bringing them up to there. So now I am worth $500 an hour or $600 an hour.

So if you can look at how do I help people get to where I am at, to me that is where you can really start to charge more. People are going to pay for that too because you are teaching them how do they level up their careers as well.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely.

So you know, going back to you know, kind of the you know, the market that you help and the results that you are getting them you know, what are they like, when you are selling yourself, how are you — I am trying to think about what a good way to say this you know.

What is the pay-off that you are giving to people. I want to look into your like, kind of like your selling strategy a little bit. What is the end result you know that you are getting your clients, and then also, how do you set that up in your sales funnel, is it page, is it you know, do you talk to people on the phone like what is your actual you know look like to get the new clients.

Joseph Sanok: So I have 3 major buckets of people that I served and it took me a while to really figure out who my audience was, but 1 bucket are people that are just starting a counseling private practice. So they are fresh out of school or they have a full-time gig and they want to do a side gig that maybe they want to grown into a full practice, maybe they just want to pay off student loan debt.

So people that are just starting out, then there is people that want to grow their practice and so people that want to grow their practice maybe they are a sole proprietor, it is just them they want to add counselors to their practice or they want to level up the amount that they are charging or in some way, they want to expand what their working on within an established practice and then that 3rd bucket is people that want to move in to become a consultant. So that is people that maybe they are really good at social media and a private practice or maybe they are you know, like mompreneur and they want to be a consultant to other mompreneurs or like I have a number of different people that are becoming consultants that I am teaching.

So each of those 3 buckets, they have different needs. They have different problems. They also have different price points, and so I have very different things for each of those. So let us take kind of — start a private practice folks. So these are people that often times have student loan debt. They maybe in one of their first jobs making a $30 to $40,000 a year and they want to do this as a side gig.

So financially, they are not going to have you know, the $500 to $1,000 minimum for 4 months you know, for individual consulting with me. They are going to be like I can barely you know, pay my bills, but I do want to do this. I want to make $100 an hour. I want to make $200 an hour in a private practice.

So I have a free opt in that is at So that is a 28-step checklist for starting your private practice. So that then gives me leads of people that are just starting out, but also, I have some affiliate links on that.

So what kind of things to someone that is starting a practice need. Well, they need a website. So, you know, I have a link to bluehost. They usually want to start an email list. So I have an affiliate link to aweber.

So I have different tools that I used you know, grasshopper phone systems. So I have a tool link to that.

So I monetized it through some of those affiliate links primarily, but once they are on to start a private practice list, then I can specialize in giving them more content. So they get automated emails over the next 26 weeks on what they need to do so start a practice.

So within that, about week 5, they get a link that is about how I have my member’s newsletter that used to be a $149 a year, but it dropped down to a one-time price of $17.

So now, they can get lifetime access to that. They get a weekly email over a year walking them through exactly what they need to do launch their practice.

And so, they convert there.

But then I also offer you know, a few different things. So for example, I just did something called blog sprint, which was where — it was a group of people that over 2 weeks, we each wrote 10 blog posts and they learn all of the SEO and we have a daily webinar for 4 days in a row where I was live. They went and took half an hour of action then came back. We did Q&A for half an hour.

So then with that, I you know, save the videos. It is going to be coming at e-course, but I had 30 people go through and each paying $97 each. So, yeah, I get paid $3,000 for doing a handful of webinars and then I also have the content for my e-course eventually that I am going to then add into that sales funnel for people that are new in private practice.

Yeah, so then if we move to the people that want to grow, that is where my sales funnel is going to aim more, getting them to do individual consulting or join one of my mastermind groups.

So similar flow but it is going to be where I want them to eventually do individual consulting with me at the $500 to $1000 a month depending on the size package that they get.

Jeremy Reeves: Cool, cool.

Yeah, and I want everybody to kind of you know, pay attention to the different levels based on where the audience is at you know, and if you have noticed you know, some of the — so for people just starting out, it was kind of lower price it was more of a beginner stuff obviously and it takes them essentially up the ladder you know, if you will. And there is different — there is different options for different people because you know, your various audience segments have different needs you know what I mean.

What is your you know, the top, top thing, like is what the highest that someone can pay you?

Joseph Sanok: Yeah, so — it depends on how you would say, I mean, the most awesome conference is $3000 for a couple of days with me and some friends. It says more of an in person and it is a collaborative thing where you know, they get the photos and the video. So that is kind of its own beast I would say, but right now, I would say most people that you know, would spend the most would be for the individual consulting. The most I have had is $1,500 a month. We meet twice a month and then they get some e-products to go with it as well as some phone support and email support.

And I post all my monthly income every single month in my website. I have done that since 2011 when I was making $1,000 a month and last month was $41,000 month.

Yeah, I mean — I definitely you know, the average counselor makes I think it is like $55,000 a year. So I almost hit that in 1 month.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. It’s awesome. Congrats.

Joseph Sanok: Thanks.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you can see like — and I am actually, I am on the page now. Let us see. I am going to tell everybody how much you earned.

Joseph Sanok: Yeah. The one for last month I think it goes live in a couple of days, but yeah, I think the May 1 is probably up.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you.

Joseph Sanok: But I earned almost 250 million dollars last year. I think I missed it by like $14,000 or something like that.

Jeremy Reeves: That sucks. I hate that.

Yeah, like, I am looking at it now. It is September 2012 is $1,300 and then let us go the next year. September 2013, is $3,000. September 2014 is $7,000. September 2015 is $22,000.

Joseph Sanok: Yeah. Early 2015, I did some new branding. I updated my website and that is when I really started partnering with a lot more people and got the most awesome conference going and so you really saw the results.

I had my first 5 figure a month I think in early 2015 and then I think I have my first $20,000 a month later that year.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I can see like it goes up to May and then it is all you know, in the teens essentially and then June is 28 and then it goes back down to teens and then it is all 20s from there.

And then this year it is mostly like the higher 20s or 30s. I think you just had 40. That is awesome.

Joseph Sanok: That was my first — I had not hit the 40, so 41 for the whole June 2016.

Jeremy Reeves: I love hitting the new you know, the new whatever 10 or you know, whatever the new big goal is. It is always exciting.

Joseph Sanok: What is crazy about it is so June, I was on vacation for the first week of the month.

This summer I have taken every Monday and Friday off and so I really tried to focus in. I am just working Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And so it is not like I am working 90 hours a week now you know, it is a — you know, 20 to 30 hours a week of really, really focused time.

Jeremy Reeves: Yes, you know what, let us go into that. Because we hear your sales funnel is pretty good and I know you have some kind of cool you know, productivity and goal setting techniques and I am always — I think you know, productivity is one of those, it is one of those topics that is so insanely important, but it is kind of like boring for people.

So for all the listeners, listen up because even though it is “kind of boring subject,” I am going to force you to listen to it, because it is good for you and you need to learn it, and that is why you know, I always talked about it like you know, I am always, I am all about lifestyle and all that kind of thing. I am actually going a little bit early today. We are taking our kids to the park. I took last Friday off. I forgot what I even took it off for. I forgot what was even for.

We took our kids, I did a half day. We took them to the pool, they go swimming. This Friday, I am taking off because it is my son’s birthday, so I am taking off. I am going to work I do not know 3 hours in the morning maybe.

And then we are taking them for lunch in the park and go and see a movie and coming home and then eating going for pizza on the way home you know, things like that. So like, I am huge you know, with the whole lifestyle thing and it is not that I do not work you know. I work you know, typically like 6 to 3 everyday, but they are so focused and I get so, I am so productive in those hours that I am able to take Friday afternoon off you know what I mean.

So let us kind of dig into that a little bit you know. Tell us about —

Joseph Sanok: I think a lot of people feel like productivity is this boring thing, but let us flip in and ask why do we want to be productive.

Well, on most Mondays, I go stand up paddle boarding with my wife and daughters and with some friends you know. Most Fridays, you know, I either drop my daughter off at whatever summer camp she is doing or we do something fun as a family or maybe I just like straighten the house, so the weekend can be like just total fun.

So productivity is just in the same way that a budget tells your money where to go. Productivity and figuring that out is auditing where you are spending your time.

And so for me, it really came out of 2012. So in 2012, it was one of those just hell years for my family.

My daughter, who is just under a year old had open heart surgery right after that and this while I am working a full-time job and had just launched the podcast and had just launched this like blog.

Two weeks after we get the all clear from my daughter’s heart, I get diagnosed with thyroid cancer and so I have to my thyroid out, go down to MD Anderson to have that removed, they have some radioactive iodine treatment.

My wife then has a miscarriage and it is just one of those years where it is like seriously, how much more can the Sanok family take.

And when you are in the midst of 2012, so that might be your year this year, maybe it was 1984 or like whatever year that has been for you. For one, you examined what matters, but for two, you pull back in all the unnecessary crap and so you do not sit and do email for an hour because your daughter is going to have heart surgery next week.

You know you just got diagnosed with cancer and so sitting and playing on Facebook and wasting a bunch of time there compared to hanging out with your family or going out to dinner with them just becomes more important.

And so during that time I was working my full-time job, I knew I needed to have the benefits for it, obviously, with all that medical stuff happening. But I also knew that that was not the long term plan.

And so I had to get hyper focused on what are the things that are going to make me money if I am going to spend time away from my daughter who is going to have a heart surgery or my family when I am going through cancer treatment.

And so — in the midst of it you would never wish that on somebody else, but it gave me some amazing habits out of that and I was already a pretty productive person, but it just like took me to a whole new level.

And so a couple of things I discovered from there is having a notes section on your phone, just use the note section. Start with a today list and then within that same section, have a someday list.

We all, especially entrepreneurs have all these ideas of, oh my gosh, I could do this or I could do this or I could do this just put it on the someday list, examined it later.

So you do not lose it, but then you also are not spending your mental energy for the day on those things that do not matter.

The second thing that I started doing was really looking at, what is my big goal okay, so maybe this year I want to have more individual consulting clients. How am I going to make that happen. Well, I need to really focus on getting to the people that are growing their small business.

So I need to set up landing pages. So I started kind of brainstorming what are all the components that are going to help me with that, (inaudible 26:11.4) building my sales funnel.

So in this week, what can I do. Okay, I do not have say, any email response system setup. So I am going to look into aweber. I am going to look into ontraport. I am going to look into all these other things. I am going to watch some videos. So really not just breaking down into a goal but micro goals, so that if you find yourself with 10 extra minutes you know, as we all do, you will just sit around and say, oh what should I do, you spend that 10 minutes being productive because that is 10 minutes you could be spending with your family, that you could be stand up paddle boarding, that you could be doing whatever it is that fills you up as a person that has nothing to do with your business.

So when you start breaking down into super micro goals of things that you can do when you find yourself with 10 minutes to keep moving that needle forward, that helps you being not just productive, but hyper productive. So that you can start to slowly eliminate those aspects of your work that just do not help the bottom line.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that, that idea of micro goals. It is actually funny because I am a really, really, really productive guy, but I have — that is one of my big like kind of pet peeves. Is when you know, a meeting goes early or you know, basically you have a couple of minutes between that and the next thing and you kind of just like sit there you know, because it is not enough time to really dig in to something, but it is like you know, you need those little micro goals like that like something small that it just gets out of your head and you know, you get it done in whatever it is 5 minutes or whatever. I like that. I am going to start doing that.

Joseph Sanok: Well, I mean, even something that is simple so like say someone shows up late to a meeting or an online call or whatever its going to be that you need to do and you find yourself with that time, saying, what is something that I can get interrupted by, so like say, I was running late and Jeremy you know, sitting on the other side and — what can I do while I am waiting for Joe to show up to our interview.

Well you know, something like I am going to go through and delete the emails I know I do not need to read or even further, I am going to go into the ones I do not read that keep coming into my inbox and I am going to unsubscribe from all of those. Okay, I can do 10 of those, that is going to save me time overall, but it is not going to take up any mental energy before I go into this podcast interview.

So having a small list of those kind of things that are going to help you continue to be more productive is just going to help you overall just cut the fat out of your business and be super lean to be productive and then help your bottom line with your time, but also your money.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, I love it.

So if you wake up — you know, just say you work in 3 days per a week, so you have you know, big to do list, you have all these different things that you want to get done. How do you prioritize them not only in terms of the week, but also the day you know.

So for example, with my — the way that I am — like most of my work is, most of my heavy work is writing, but then, there is also like the that is like the client side of things, but then there is also just right running the business, the administrative you know, type of stuff, doing podcast and writing articles and you know, all that other stuff that you have to do to you know, to be able to get the clients and to be able to keep your business going you know.

So how do you like — so how do you structure your day and your week in terms of like priorities like that?

Joseph Sanok: Sure. So one of the things we know from brain research is that really in a day, you only have so much brain space that you can use on tasks and highly effective people like Steve Jobs or Barack Obama have figured it out ways to take the decision making out of their day.

So for example, every night, the night before, I put my clothes out so I do not have to worry about what I am going to put on my body and have that be a decision.

Barak Obama only has 2 colors of suits. When Steve Jobs decided that he liked his black turtle neck, he ordered a hundred of them and so the kinds of people that are highly effective takes those little decisions out so that they have more brain space for the things that matter.

So one thing that I do is, in my schedule, I have certain things that repeat every single week.

So my podcast goes live on Tuesday and I know that I want to take Monday and Friday off, so Thursday mornings, I am blackout to repeat work on podcast. So that way, if I have not got the podcast all set for the next week, I can you know, get it done that morning. So I may not have to do that, maybe I get it done on Tuesdays so that I can blog or do something else, but at least I know that that is when I am going to make sure that I get my podcast done. So there is not that extra stress or that extra worry.

And so looking at what are the patterns and the things that you need to do to keep moving the needle forward is really important because then, if you put some automations into your schedule, so for example, I want to do most of my consulting with people between 1 and 3 because that seems like kind of the best time for me you know, I just had lunch. I feel fully present. I am going to do counseling private practice, people do not usually want it quite that early and so I will just automatically blackout time that that is going to be for my consulting, for my one-on-one consulting with people. It takes the decision making out so then I can use my brain for the things that are most important for my business.

And then the other thing that I do is when I know say, I am driving into my office, it is a 10-minute commute. If I know that I am going to be a writing blog post or if I know I am going to be say on local radio, promoting something or talking about counseling topics. I think about those key kind of pillars of the blog post or of the talk and really try to get them down in my head and maybe even write them down in a notepad, in a stop light, or you know, doing an audio memo, whatever works for you so that when I am in the front of that blank screen or when I need to work on something like I already have the topic figured it out and I have the basic structure for figuring it out so that I can then quickly write that blog post or I can quickly write that copy because I have already brainstorming about it before I set down with that blank screen.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know, I love that and I actually do that for the podcast like for my own podcast and also for articles that I write. Anytime I get an idea, it goes in. I used SONA for my project management. So I have a thing it is called JR Content Ideas.

So anytime I need a new podcast, I actually just record it on this morning before our (inaudible 32:11.0). I literally just you know, go into SONA, I click on the little thing and it is loading up right now and I have, I do not know exactly how many, roughly 25 ideas in there. So I literally just go down the list, — okay, I am going to talk about that one you know.

And then I just — I mean for me, like you know, my podcast, I know the stuff you know, front and back, so I literally just okay you know, here is one about trip wires right, so I can just hit record and I just go you know, for like 20 minutes or half hour or something like that and then I am you know, and then I am done and then I hit export, it goes to my assistant and from there on out it is out of my hands you know.

Yeah, you know, so I definitely agree with that. It is the same thing even for your client projects I do that you know, if I get an idea, if I get like a hook idea or an angle idea or something for bullets or you know, different way of saying something, I make a note in SONA and then like in their project because every client has a kind of project in a SONA and then you know, when I am working on that project, at that point, it is out of my head, it is cleared out of my you know, my head space and then the next time I am working on that project it could be you know, later that day or you know, a week from now, then I go into that and the idea is right there you know, and I do not have to try to sit there and remember it. I do not have to you know, whatever it is just there. So yeah, I love that.

Joseph Sanok: I think finding the system that works for you that you can do every day.

So you know, I pulled out my notes section, I look into my today list, I look into my schedule the night before, so I am mentally prepared for what I need to do. So looking at — so I have my consulting client and then after that I knew I was doing this podcast with Jeremy so I am going to then look back at our emails, I am going to check out our website again so that it’s — kind of a lean manufacturing like just in time kind of idea.

So putting things back to back. So for example, right after this call, I have a counseling appointment that is going to be here in a couple of minutes and then right after that, I have consulting client that I am meeting with.

And so when I get in that like I am doing counseling or I am doing consulting mode, I want to try as best I can to go back to back and to keep the people that I am working with on time too to show that there is that professionalism, but also the — like I need to get a lot done because every minute that I am standing here that I am doing a podcast interviews I am not hanging out with my 5-year-old or my 2-year-old.

And to me, that is super important that I am father at home that is fun, that is you know, filled up, that financially provides all of that. So I need to be as effective as possible when you know I am in business mode.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, absolutely. I love it. Well, hey, you know, I have a blast talking with you so far and we have actually been talking for like an hour and a half now because I was just on your podcast.

Joseph Sanok: Yeah, yeah.

I have a free e-course that I wanted to give to your listeners. Usually, it is about $100, but if they go over to it is a 19-minute video all about how to move from being paralyzed by perfection to getting things done. You can see some of my hacks that I used. I talked about you know, making sure that you are moving forward rather than just kind of thinking and thinking about making it perfect. There is also a 19-page download that goes with that.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I am actually going to — I am actually going to get that too because I always you know, as productive as I am, I always like to kind of refresh all of my things and what I do is I try to, I try to look at ways, look at new techniques and strategies to beat what I am already doing you know what I mean. Even if it is just a little stuff over time because if you, you know, if you have whatever a hundred little different things that you do and you beat one of them every you know, every couple of days, every 3 days that is — your doubling it every year you know what I mean.

Joseph Sanok: Yeah, absolutely. The book by Charles Duhigg, it just came out, Smarter, Faster, Better is amazing. It is so good. It has a ton of case studies. People finding not just productivity, but increasing their quality while reducing the amount of time it takes to do that. It is a great book I recommend to your listeners.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good and I am going to buy it right now. Yeah, yeah, alright and I just bought that. You got to love Amazon. Yeah, it is literally bought.

So anyway, yeah. So let us see, before we head off you know, I always like to ask you know, is there anything that I have not asked or kind of one parting you know, lesson that you want to leave people with before you head off?

Joseph Sanok: Yeah, I would say, the parting lesson I would leave is think about your why, like why are you trying to make more money? Why are you trying to grow this business? Let that be kind of — if you think about a car, that is like the gas pedal and then you have your where that you headed towards and that is like you know, the spot on the map and then your how is going to be kind of your steering wheel of the small little micro decisions that make.

You can figure out your own why and start there. It then helps to find who you want to work with. It then helps to find the products that they care about and can afford and then that leads into the content that you are going to create.

So it is almost like a personal funnel for yourself of figuring out like why I am doing this. How am I going to do this. Who am I going to serve and then how do I best do that for them.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. I love it, I love it and I fully agree. So yeah, last thing, just let everybody know and you know, you already did that , but say it again I guess or if there is any other ways that you want people to you know, to get in touch with you and see you know, if they can work together or you know, whatever you know, whatever the best next step it is for people to take.

Joseph Sanok: So for people who are interested in working together, I do a free 30-minute consultation where we talk all about — like what are you trying to achieve. What are the big ambitious goals that you want to go after. So people can connect with me at or you can just email me [email protected] we can connect there. I am on all the social media if you just search my name, you will find me there.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good, yeah. You know, as always we will have all the links in the show notes so you do not have to remember the URL, just kind of click the link in the show notes, you will go right there.

Hey, it was a pleasure my friend. I will look forward to kind of keeping in touch and becoming more productive together.

Joseph Sanok: Absolutely. Thanks so much Jeremy.

Jeremy Reeves: Thanks. Have a good one.

Joseph Sanok: You too. Bye.

About the Author Jeremy Reeves

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