Melinda Chen on Closing High-Ticket Clients

In today’s episode we dig into the mind of Melinda Chen. Melinda is a MASTER of high-ticket selling… whether you’re selling products, services, or anything else! We discuss how to get in front of your perfect target audience, how to make yourself stand out and get the attention of the “higher ups”, and how to then close the deal! Plus she even critiques one of MY promotions I’m about to launch to get in front of high-level clients. Enjoy!

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Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sales funnel master podcast and today I am interviewing Melinda Chen and we are going to be talking about how to kind of reach and make sales to really, really high-ticket clients and I think it is going to be a fascinating interview and you know, basically, Melinda has — she is a founder of Women Making Big Sales so to just give you a little bit of background about her. She has 15 years of background in corporate sales, and in the past 5 years, she has actually reached 8 figures in terms of her sales track record which is unbelievably impressive. That is a lot of stuff to sell in 5 years.

Now she actually helps entrepreneurs. She specializes in helping entrepreneur’s sell and get in front of hard to reach or hard to access decision makers and to find those big you know, kind of whale clients that we all want to get in front of and not only get in front of, but actually have the you know, the authority and positioning to actually make a sale to because — we will get in to all the reasons why we should be doing that, there are about a billion all of them which we will go through, but Melinda, how are you.

Melinda Chen: Yes, hi Jeremy, I am very good.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Sounds good. So I did a really quick you know, intro of you, just to kind of give everybody a quick little background, but tell us a little bit about your story you know, who you are, who you help, what you do, all that kind of good stuff.

Melinda Chen: Yeah. Sure. Sure. I really started selling. I go into trade show since I was age 15. I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family and my parents they have got their business. So by the time I started knowing how to speak English because I was an Asian descent, so by the time I was speaking English relatively well, my dad figured, oh perfect, she will be the perfect translator for business meetings and go into trade shows.

So he take me to trade shows and I loved it. I love the energy. I love all the creativity that came with it. So that is when I decided to keep doing — keep staying in business and keep doing sales.

Then I graduated from the university. I got my first job as international sales manager and that was really my official sales job, selling educational products to agents around the world, Brazil, Korea, Europe, and I have really realized that wow, there is a logical (inaudible 2:29.4) about sales especially when you are dealing with people who has got a 20 years of experience in sales and I just graduated from university. So I was like, 22 like fresh meat to these sales agents, right.

And then I started really reading lots of books about sales and I did a lot of cold calls. I did about you know, throughout my whole sales career, I have done about 5,000 cold calls.

So really, just to refine those sales skills and eventually master my own art of selling and most importantly is that I really felt — I love the challenge of getting the really hard to reach big clients and the decision makers.

So right now, I help entrepreneurs reach those client and sell to big client.

Jeremy Reeves: Awesome. Yeah, that is really cool. It is a very unique background. You get started really early. That is awesome.

So you know, what start with because you know, everybody, anybody listening to this and I also want to say, a lot of this is going to apply most of it is going to be the most relevant to anybody in the service industry, but if you are selling any kind of product, this is also very, very, very relevant.

For example, you know, I have been thinking a lot of my clients that you know, they are selling whatever, a couple $100 products, but then one of the things that I helped them with is implementing something like you know, somebody’s — their highest sales is like just a $500.

One of the fastest ways to grow your business is putting in — I called it a freedom offer you know, because you only have to sell a couple of them to give yourself freedom.

So I always look and say, okay, what can we — can we take your highest priced even if it is a product or service whatever it is and 10 times it gives something you know, so if you are selling your highest price is $500 what can we sell for $5,000 you know and so if you are in that position or if you want to be in that position I also want to make sure that you are paying really close attention to this because what we are going to go over covers all that to. It is not just that you are in the service industry.

Melinda Chen: Oh yes, definitely.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I want to give that a really quick kind of disclaimer just so people are not saying well I am not a service provider, so therefore, you know, this is not going to be relevant to me and even if you are selling products you should be have some kind of service anyway so you know, it should be relevant to everybody.

So the first thing I would like to start with is the advantages you know, what are the reasons in your mind for going after these you know, these big high-ticket clients versus going after you know, going after the lower quantity buy higher quality clients versus higher quantity and lower or you know, lower price but more clients.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, I like to tell people that — I understand if a lot of people when they started out and they want to go for that, those low hanging fruit, but you should always target big clients because especially if you have a product, and there is a lot of things about I mean it depends on whether you have online product or actual physical products, but the (inaudible 5:33.9) scale is very important especially when you have physical product, you said, oh, I am just going to sell things cheap and sell a lot of quantity, but you get to work with big clients. The cost to acquire small client is actually a lot higher than cost you acquire big clients because the cost to acquire big clients takes a lot of relation building.

Yeah, it does take a lot of time to build that relationship, but they tend to be more stable. There is a lot of — if you can shape your business the right way then you get a lot of repeat business, but if you are working with small business, a lot of times, you know, they tend to be a little bit more unstable, so depending on the clients or the business industry you are in, but you would reach a (inaudible 6:18.9) after small clients.

So how do (inaudible 6:21.7) after small client. A lot of times, either you do advertising, the marketing. So you are basically giving a lot of money to Facebook, Twitter, and linkedin. They love that. I mean social medial platform, they love this you know. They love small entrepreneurs keep doing advertising with them. (inaudible 6:40.0) the cost to acquire small client proportionally actually a lot higher than getting big clients.

So a lot of small clients I understand that or small entrepreneurs I understand that they might say, oh, I want to start off you know going after smaller clients, but you should always keep in mind that you have to go for big clients for you to actually make that significant freedom if we were talking about or profit because eventually you have to stop wasting your money on small clients, your money and time on small clients.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you know, that actually comes back — I have been talking, actually the last couple episodes. I cannot even remember off the top of my head if they are live or not. I remember recording them. I forgot if they are live or not, but one of the things that I have been talking about recently is, how much more valuable a repeat customer is, like a higher value customer, because you know, the first time you sell a product or service, you have all that cost that goes into acquiring that you know, the client or the customer and then, but then the second time, you do not have that cost you know, so all of your marketing cost is only in that first kind of you know, the acquiring of them, but not the second time or the third time or the tenth time.

So you know, your profit margin is going way, way up as you work with them longer and I think bigger clients are much more in the position to you know, you are going to get not only bigger first time projects, but repeat projects because they have more going on you know what I mean. Would you agree with that?

Melinda Chen: Yes, definitely. I mean we can talk more about big clients and how the psychology of big clients, but definitely you know, it is the repeatable business is one huge advantage to working with big client and they tend to have very small circle of the people they work with. So most likely you can get referrals to other big clients.

So just think about your business, do you want to keep having small client and they refer you more small client or would you like to have one big client and they are happy with you and they refer you to other big clients, and you know, I tell a lot of small entrepreneurs is that if you do not do it right now, 6 months from now on or a year from now on you still be chasing after small clients. You still be working 10 hours a day trying to go after those small clients if you do not go after big clients right now.

Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. So you know, what are the things like I can hear people listening to this and say, yeah, but you know, Melinda, it is really you know, it is really scary going after these big clients, you know, I am — maybe you know, maybe they do not have the experience or they have the experience, but they do not have the confidence you know, in themselves, in the results that they produced to go after these big clients you know, so what are — you know, how do you overcome that like, that fear you know, to going after these big clients.

I remember you know, when I, I mean this is years and years ago, but when I first started going out to bigger clients you know myself, I remember having that kind of trepidation you know that nervousness of oh my God, what if one of them actually says yes, you know what I mean.

How do you help your clients overcome that fear of actually kind of getting started.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, well, I called it a big client muscle. I see myself a little bit like the fitness coach. What we are teaching a lot of times is, it is not necessary revolutionary, but it is like trying to get fit you know, you have a step-by-step process of how to get fit. The same thing with (inaudible 10:22.3) training is that we have a step-by-step process. So you know what to expect. You know that okay, today, we are trying to get a leads and (inaudible 10:30.5) are the few activities we are doing to get a lead and we focus on the activities themselves and also we start by doing it.

So we take baby step you know, today, yes, we understand. We are not trying to call the biggest client today and then ask for a business, but we are going to (inaudible 10:48.7) with some really influential people today and that just go by talking to them, propose your value proposition and share your ideas with them.

So slowly — I think it is almost like when people step into a dark room, they do not know what to expect, they do not know what is in it, spiders or you know, mouse, whatever. People naturally get scared, but you know, if you turn on the light and just show people that you know, there is a step-by-step process and also you know, just take baby step, the fear to selling to big clients will naturally reduce, but I also like to share with you is that I being a corporate sales for 15 years and the reality is that I sell every single day and when I send an email to a client, before I send it like I am excited they have like he is so going to love it. This is a great offer why would he like it, but the moment I press that send, I am like, no, he is never going to write me back.

Jeremy Reeves: I have had an exact experience.

Melinda Chen: Oh, it is like you are so excited like, oh I have got great idea, he is so going to love it, but then you pressed it and there is the doubt of fear, but the reality we all have it and the difference is like I still do it, I still have that, no I said, when I (inaudible 12:08.0) to see oh, I am like, why the heck is the CEO going to reply to me, but now, I recognize it. I said, well, it is only natural. Melinda, you always have this kind of thing. You always think about it, go walk around, call your coach or call your — the people you work with and you know that you are going to feel better 2 days from now. Just you know, let it sit and so I think that fear is only natural because it is (inaudible 12:33.6) and I am not going to sugar coat it and say listen you know, you are not going to have fear selling to big clients, the most realistic way is that you will have that fear but the difference is that you are going to now you realize that everybody has that kind of fear one way or another and it is just simply recognize it and then just let it sit and say, okay, let us wait for 2 days and let us see what happens and at the same time you know what to do in terms of the next step.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you know what, in my career with the people that know all the things that I do, I am just kind of known as someone who sees the fear, faces the fear, and then does it anyway. My mom, every time I tell her like things that I am doing that are like you know, semi-crazy, she is always like, Jer, I do not understand how you can actually get pass the fear you know, and for me, it is kind of trained because I just always done it. I am someone who you know, I just do not care, you know what I mean. I have a very thick skin I guess, but you know, but I was not always like that.

I remember starting off in my career and I mean it was nerve racking you know, it is horrible, but the more you do it and you realized, hey, things did not go so bad you know, even in the case like this, it is like you know, you are afraid of what they are going to say, how they are going to react you know, they are going to tell you that you are worthless or you know, whatever it is that you are afraid of, it never happens you know what I mean. It never does and it is just that sense of being able to feel it and do it anyway you know, and then just sit on and see what happens you know.

Melinda Chen: See what happens and then you know, I think especially when approaching big clients you need to build a relationship and then the referrals, the introduction. So basically, you need to get in the circle and the fact that you know, you have already build that preparation, you have already had the preparation and you got introduced and then it is a softer contact then you know, we are not talking about just cold calling the CEO.

So to really have you know, just slowly getting to this entourage it also ease up the fear of selling to this person because eventually you will start to feel that oh you know, I think I kind of know this person because I have done so much preparation trying to work with this person.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. You know what, I can tell you from personal experience that, in fact, actually this just happened today, somebody emailed me requesting to be I guess on the podcast and I can actually tell I was so impressed because she started off the conversation by, hey, I just read this value and then I read this and I love how you talked about this and this and this and I listened to a podcast, I loved how you brought up this topic and blah, blah and I could tell I mean it seemed like she (inaudible 15:35.7) 3 hours of research and I was so impressed because normally it is dear sir/madam, you know, blah, blah it is like really, you know, they get deleted instantly.

So I think a lot of is just about doing research and even if I think that overcomes a lot of anxiety that you have like when even if they can tell you are a little bit nervous when you first get in touch it is like hey you know what, they actually did the research and it almost, it almost creates like sort of like a (inaudible 16:08.1) like you almost — if somebody you know, get in touch with you and you can tell they researched you and spent a lot of their time really putting a thought and effort into whatever it is a call or an email or direct mail, whatever you are doing, you almost feel obligated to at least give them you know, a couple of minutes to hear their you know, their elevator speech.

Do you agree with that? Do you think that is you know, kind of part of what happens is how people react to that.

Melinda Chen: Oh yeah, definitely. I agree with that 100%. The one of the best strategy that I always used is show do not tell, and show by I mean we are constantly doing this communication, a lot of people asked me so how do you show without telling. I mean when you are emailing then you automatically telling something, but this example when you mentioned about the person trying to pitch getting to your podcast is a very good example. In fact, they are showing that they are the person who would do the hard work. They would do the research. So when approaching the client, I would tell people you know, I mean, there are a lot of different ways and process, but one of really great way to talk about it is talk about their competitor. If you know the name, the decision maker of you know, obviously, you are trying to work with this person, but you (inaudible 17:22.1) in the email conversation you not casually mention the decision maker of their direct competitor then it is showing, very quickly showing that you know that you (inaudible 17:33.6) you know that inside out of the industry.

So (inaudible 17:36.4) that kind of basically doing the research, a lot of research before the call to show that you know, you have done research about this company and about this client and you understand their business priorities. That is worth a lot more than telling them oh here is my valid preposition.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that, I love that. Actually, we are going to talk about a campaign that I am putting together right now, it is actually on my list this week to finalize. I have like 6 giant boxes of things I am going to be sending out to people. Yeah, we will talk about that in a couple of minutes, but yeah, I mean it really goes right along and actually, I actually so — let me bring it back to an actual thing that I did, this was, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, and there was — yeah, I think it was about 2010 or 2011 something like that, give or take.

And there was a really kind of heavy hitter in my industry that was looking for a copywriter, so my thought was, alright, this guy, I know that a lot of other copywriters are going to see this so how do I standout you know. How do I make myself so he gets my message and it is like oh my God, I have to talk to this person.

So what I did was I got to know his business. I actually made him a personal video to him, it was not like, oh I made you a personal video and then it is the same thing to everybody, it was actually like, I actually address them by name. I talked about his website and it was a video. I put it on a page and then I send him a big giant like 3 foot 2 mail and then you pull that out, a big piece sheet of paper and it was like a message on there with the URL and then he went to the you know, to URL and it was a video of me talking to him.

And that client ended up being worth, I think it was about $120,000 over 2ish year period.

And I think you know, I remember he told me he was like I was so impressed you know, you made a video for me specifically and he actually showed his entire office and he said, guys, this is the stuff we need to be doing you know what I mean.

Yeah, I agree with the you know, the more you talk about like just not sending out you know, blank you know, kind of just general messages. I mean, it is really, just a marketing principle you know. We are heading you know, in terms of personalization you know, I have so many tests that I have been doing in my clients with segmentation, personalization, and the more you can talk specifically to that person, whether it is a high value or not, the higher your sales go and I think it is especially important with you know, with these really high techie clients when you are going after you know, the really like the decision makers you know in the companies.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, yeah. I think especially the decision makers and that is why there is you know, there is, right now a lot of well going back to a lot of people talking about social selling and how you — you know, it is going to replay selling itself. I think it presents an opportunity because there are more and more people. They are trying to automate everything but if you can really prove or you can contact these big client and using a lot of personal touch and then a lot of research, I mean we are in this age that there is so much information just right out there publicly for us to grab, you get to pick up important information and show it to this big client, it is so easy to stand out because everybody is trying to automate and everybody is just trying to just do the easy way and there are a couple of you know, so many things that we can do just simply stand out.

Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. So let us talk about how you actually get in front of clients, so you know, you did the research, maybe you actually you know, maybe I do not know, you make like a spreadsheet or something like that of the clients that you want to reach out to whatever your kind of prep work is, and then you did. You have your list of let us just say it is 100 people you want to reach out to or 50 or 10 or whatever it is, let us just say 50, just so it is a manageable number.

So you go, you do your research on all of them and then it is time to actually get in front of them. So what do you recommend. What are some of the things that you have done either yourself or your clients or whatever to actually get in front of the client. Do you — you know, do you send cold emails. Do you just call them. Do you do direct mail, you know, what are some of the things that you guys do.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, well the first thing I like to highlight is that there are 2 different role, and today we are targeting with the entrepreneurs. I think it is very different if somebody is a sales person like a B to B sales person or you know, or just general sales person, all they have to do is sell you know, I can say, you know pick 100 names, 200 names and she was your sale target, let us call it, let us you know, use softwares, Twitter, Facebook whatever to connect with your big clients, but I think you know, with your podcast, I think we are addressing those people who are entrepreneurs and who do not have you know 7 hour a day to just sell. I mean we have other things to do you know, it is not just selling although it (inaudible 22:45.8) the most important aspect of business, but you got to do the operational side, the (inaudible 22:50.4) existing clients.

So what I would recommend the first most important thing, the absolutely most important thing for an entrepreneur or solo entrepreneur is that should be very target at in terms who you want to sell and the reality is that you cannot target a 100 big clients at one time because then there is no way that you are going to provide personal — I mean, then it is a give and take, I mean you will be able to provide some kind of personal, but it is never really that personal kind of attention to those big clients. So that is one thing I really cautioned is that do not target 100 clients.

If you have like a list of 100 then try to narrow it down and then usually if you have that list, what we build is, we called it 2 x 5 formula. So the two, the first two is the prep work, the prep (inaudible 23:45.2) work as absolutely especially with the big clients, use your 100% of your energy to bind the introduction into this client.

So in fact, I would recommend — personally, I would recommend the first 1 or 2 months focus on building relationship with their entourage and then also we create you know, connection map, it is like a mind map, except it is a connection map, whose connected to whom because regardless of what industry you are in I mean I have sold around the world as I mentioned before South America, North America, Asia, Europe whatever industry (inaudible 24:19.2) different industries. Once you are talking to the big, big clients they all know each other. It is a very, very small world.

So go dig into the linkedin profiles. Look to you know, first of all, obviously, the first thing is you have to make sure what target, either you are targeting you know big time speakers or you know, big buyers with certain industries then really dig into their linkedin and Twitter. See who they are connected to. Most likely is that those people they always use similar service providers.

For example, you know, if you are social manager (inaudible 24:55.4) try to find who are the big PR managers they are working with, because most likely they are working with the — I mean you are already working with some of the big clients (inaudible 25:04.7) that everybody kind of just what you know, especially big guys, they like to keep their (inaudible 25:10.8) and they like to keep working with similar people or thing, same group of people. Big clients are extremely (inaudible 25:18.3) so what I would recommend is that build that connection or relationship map.

So just take the — take linkedin and use any mind map or other kind of mind map on the website, there is one I loved and then start drafting this relationship map and figure out what kind of a (inaudible 25:39.4) always go to. Who do they should work with. The service provider (inaudible 25:44.8) always work with then start building relationship with the service provider first. If you want to focus on startup companies, incubators, is there any big name incubators in (inaudible 25:56.5) you know somehow you could provide value to and those are usually what I would really recommend is to connect with these people who are the (inaudible 26:06.8) of influence with people you want to target because the moment that you build trust with them then I mean this is what happened now when I went to get another client is they close on the people I know really well and interest you. I give them a call and say you know, here is what I am thinking you know, here is a few ideas I have for the upcoming project, what do you think and then we start talking about industry.

And what do you mean by talking about industry, basically, you know, we are going to share (inaudible 26:31.7) who might be interested in this, who would this project be useful to.

So this is extremely you know, extremely important thing is fill that relationship map and then start to provide you know building values.

So that is it. We are back to 2-5 formula so that you would be creating at least 2 soft contact with the decision maker and then we do the 5 official contacts and why do I — instead of saying, oh, do we cold email this decision maker or do we send a cold call or things like that. I want you to tell people try to (inaudible 27:12.4) at least 5 different contacts. So it could be a simple I mean you know, we all know this you know, simple like on Facebook or you know providing some kind of value or maybe meet with the person in the networking or bands and things like that, but the moment you build that 5 then you know that you are — you know, your whole sales relationship is not going to rely on one simple sales phone call.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. I love that.

Melinda Chen: You know, so keep you know, (inaudible 27:38.8) formulate that and focus on the first they know you, like you, and then trust you and then slowly build — you know fill that before you even talk to the person and maybe I am pessimist but I say most likely the first time you contact this person he is not going to say yes to your offer no matter how great your valued proposition is or your elevator speech is.

So plan 5 different contacts so that you slowly bring the client to the final sale speech and it is a very simple way but also just simply have that plan out will ease people’s mind about selling, about you know, oh, you know, he is definitely going to say no, but you are not asking him whether he would need to (inaudible 28:24.3) have this officials sales meeting yet, you are simply saying, hey, you know, here is the quick information about me or I thought this would be interesting and that will be it.

So no pressure and once you have the process you are not going to continue focus on this one specific client, but you do this with other clients and then slowly build that relationship.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love that. So as you are building, as you are providing these people value, you are getting to know them, they are not going to — there is no resistance, there is no sales resistance because there is no sales you know at this point.

So they are starting to trust you. They are starting to kind of understand you, you know, you are familiar to them. When and I know this is kind of a generic thing because there is no like oh you know, you do it 4 days after the first or whatever, but if like in general, when is the good time to start then transitioning from okay you know, we kind of built the relationship to you know, transitioning into the you know sales mode you know so to speak.

Melinda Chen: I think when — this happens actually this sales mode or this transitional mode, we would be planning it right at the beginning. When people are trying to figure out you know, what kind of client they wanted to focus and what their value proposition is, I always tell people it is not just the value proposition, in fact, trigger events that is a lot more important than the value proposition.

I am not saying that you are not providing value. I am hoping that you are providing a legitimate value to this client because if you are not, you know, that is never going to work from my experience. You got to be providing some real benefits to big clients, but also, the trigger events. What it means that right before at the beginning is that every industry is seasonal. So you have to plan what seasonal about the industry you are targeting.

My favorite example would be the product base companies, Christmas shopping season, it is a hectic season and even big clients there is always something late about their planning you know, either there are 2 PR. I have worked with PR companies that PR agent they were able to get big clients because they just simply target the fashion company that did not get into the Christmas shopping list on magazines.

Jeremy Reeves: Got you, okay.

Melinda Chen: So if the trigger events, what are the trigger events that really impact the industry and if you can really focus on that then when you are building (inaudible 30:57.9) like and things like that once the trigger events hit and you have already planned it ahead of time you know what are the important things, a lot of times you know, incubators you know, startup companies there is time to apply for incubating program. There is speaker, the speaker seasons. Coaches, there is always sales season. So you have to know your trigger events.

So once you build that relationship now you got your benefit and you got a trigger event, then you find the people who needs help during those hectic season who are late doing the things that you can offer then it becomes a very natural we are not even selling, you are just calling you know, and say, Hey Jeremy, I know the important day is coming up and I have not seen your information, your product on any social media what is going on.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, and I actually use that approach in a similar way, but slightly different way and that I am really good at taking what people already have and finding the holes in their marketing and then filling those holes.

You know, for example, one of my clients, I reached out to him and he had like a monthly you know membership program and I just reached out to him and I said, hey, his name is Mark and I said, Hey Mark, I have never seen you know, anything on your website like trying to take people from your monthly program to a yearly.

I am like you know, what would you say, what if we you know, what if I do a promotion for you and just simply taking people on your monthly you know program and offering them a yearly plan and you know, I would not charge anything and blah, blah, just be percentage of the people that upgrade you know, and it works you know, and he was like okay you know, there is no risk in it for me, you are doing all the work, I never thought of that idea and it sounds like a good idea because it was actually good timing because he need it like a patch infusion to reinvest back into his product. He is very like techie kind of thing, say he buy a whole bunch of equipment, stuff like that.

You know, and we did it and it was a huge, huge success you know, he made a ton of money. I made a ton of money and it was awesome. So it is a similar thing like it was — it was not really a seasonal thing, but it was a like a weakness I guess you know you can call it in his business you know, but yeah, I love that you know, there really is, there is a lot of — you know, most businesses have something like that even if you know, could be seasonal, a lot of businesses are seasonal or it could be if it is not seasonal, it could be something like that where it is more of like a weakness and you just kind of fill that gap you know.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, I love — I mean there is nothing more than calling a client and say that and listen, do you know what your competitors are doing right now.

You know and then that is just a very simple and again you know, it (inaudible 33:53.1) it does not feel like you are selling the person, but you know, you are really trying to first of all provide the value and have this in cycle conversation and people at this point the big clients are going to figure out that you know, you are not just trying to always repeat it your value proposition and then just go through the same thing. You are really providing insightful information about the industry they are interested in and let us face it, big clients are very competitive. They love to know what happens with their competitors, so it is a great conversation breaker.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. So let me ask you this. Have you ever tried and this goes back to my promotion that I am about to test out probably next week I would say, because I am going to finalize it this week, but then I still to do all the research and all that stuff beforehand.

Have you ever tried anything with direct mail to reach out big clients?

Melinda Chen: Direct mail, I have never — I mean I have done a lot of cold calls. I have done direct mails, I do not know how many (inaudible 34:57.6) out but probably in a smallest scales, I have, I would not say I have the most success with, but yeah, I have done it.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So what I am doing basically is I am putting the other list a very you know, a very targeted list, I know the market really well, all that kind of stuff. I mean I could probably list off you know 30 people off on top of my head then (inaudible 35:26.1) send it out to.

I got to do like 10 weeks, but basically — yeah, yeah you know, just kind of you know, put it into our current you know, kind of marketing plan that we are doing every week.

So what I am doing is I am doing a thing called lump email and I have this — I came up with — I bought these treasure chests right and they are like 5 inches long I do not roughly 3 inches high something like that, I like to have fun with Mark.

Those are all the boxes that we got by the way, I bought 100 of them and you know so they came in like —

Melinda Chen: You must have a pretty good warehouse.

Jeremy Reeves: Well, it is actually in my basement. Yeah, so there are all down there and I actually gave 1 each to each of my boys, I have 2 and a 4 year old, so they each got a treasure chest you know, and so basically, what I am doing is building a list of people in a very specific you know target audience that I have already gotten results before you know, a lot of people in that industry already know me that kind of thing and I am sending it to them. Now, my audience is going to be a little bit different than like really high like super high-end corporate you know, where there is like you know, the hierarchies like 85,000 people you know, mine are typically you know somewhere between — yeah like between like 5 to 20 employees you know, in that range because a lot of — you know, this industry, they do not need tons of employees to you know, to go up into like that.

You know my target is mostly in 7 figure range you know, that is kind of — even like once you hit like $10m it starts getting a little bit too high because then they are starting to get like full-time copywriters and stuff like that.

So what I am doing is you send in the treasure chest you know, in the mail with a letter from me inside the chest and then there is a little lock on it with a key and everything and then we made this whole like story, awesome story and the value proposition are the you know, the offer is basically you know, instead of like, hey you know, call and let’s do a project. It is essentially like, Hey, you know, we are tying in the whole treasure chest thing to you know, you have revenue that is kind of buried beneath the sand and I am like you know, let us get on to quick 30-minute call, I ask you some questions and I will help find some of that revenue for you without mentioning like doing projects together anything like that.

What do you think of that approach? Do you think I am missing anything? Do you think I should add anything else and you know, it is a little bit outside of what you normally do.

Melinda Chen: Well I first of all, I do not really know your business but who are those treasure chest addressed to? Are they directly addressed to the founder or the marketing managers, the founders.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, the founders, yep.

Melinda Chen: And the value you are providing you basically just asking them that you know, you would like to set up a 30-minute call with them right.

Did you write any case studies or what competitive did and then what I meant is that big clients or I mean we are not talking about just corporate clients but the successful people, they are very money driven and I do not know in your letter or inside the treasure chest if you have some kind of thing to you know, you can talk about case study and just very quick you know.

Did you know that after speaking with somebody and we uncovered because the whole point is about uncovering right and convert a specific amount of missing profit.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, so what I am doing, I actually guarantee them that I am going to show them how to increase by a certain amount and then also the weather itself is going to be like you know, like who I am and why I am getting in touch and all that is 2 pages and then I am going to have a another 4 pages just of case studies, just 4 like straight pages of all case studies, more for just like kind of overwhelming proof you know what I mean.

Melinda Chen: I mean, obviously, they know you personally already. Are these people, they already know you?

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, they either they know me, a lot of them have probably heard of me. Most of the clients that I worked with in this industry, when they get in touch, they have heard about me from usually one of their competitors because like you said, you know, a lot of the people in the same industry know each other, they talk to each other, they masterminds together you know, that kind of thing.

So they have either heard of me somewhere. A lot of them read the same blogs and podcast things like that and so they have heard me on air and so they have — most of them will have if not all, will have at least some kind of recollection of me you know.

Melinda Chen: And how do you plan out that following up. Do you plan on sending a quick email or just a —

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and that is one question I actually did not even think of that until you were talking about linkedin before. That idea, if you heard me typing before, I was actually writing down the idea.

So that was, I kind of just (inaudible 40:54.2) as you were talking was send that out and then a couple of days after I send it follow over them on linkedin and say, hey you know, I send you package a couple of days hope you got it you know, if you have any question let me know you know, whatever.

I have not quite thought through the linkedin message yet, but yeah, probably on linkedin, a lot of the people I am probably already connected with you know, that kind of thing.

Melinda Chen: Okay, and then do you — I am assuming that you want to make this. So this is — you really want to have as dramatic impact as possible right for this. I mean it would not hurt that you know, for me, I mean it is already a very unique idea, but if — because I do not know the kind of service you will be providing, but if you really want to build that kind of expectation, I would assume that you are going to send this out to the founder. If you are sending this addressing directly to the founder, it does not hurt to really start on if who else will be involved in this decision making.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, that is a good idea. So most of them, I would say probably 90 I mean easily 90% plus of the time, when I am talking to these clients on the phone it is the founder themselves because again you know, again, it is not my kind of sweet spot is like you know, the one the $10M range you know, but it is not like a big you know, like I just did a project for $300m company, but that was a very rare you know, project.

So most of them are somewhere the range between like $500,000 or like $10M or so you know and then yeah, so it is you know, it probably will go to the founder, there might be some exceptions to that like for example, the client that I got a couple of years ago that I mentioned earlier that ended up like the secretary got it but then she passed it to him you know what I mean.

Melinda Chen: Well, I mean, what I would do because and you still want to a lot of them I assumed that they kind of still know you and then you want to really bring forth that like I mean the trust would probably go into the case study and the letter you are writing and especially your online presence and your website, but at the same time, you want to really bring forth that like and know you kind of factor.

So it would not be a bad idea to really figure out who might being bought in this decision making. I mean, it does not mean that they will make that final decision, but for example, if they have a couple marketing people, they really work with social medial, people they work with, send a quick email, right before you send this and say by the way, I am about to send really cool stuff to so and so.

Just want to let you know it is going to be pretty cool look forward to hearing from you and you know, just get people talking to make sure that it is not going to be something that is going to be dismissed or what is even more — I mean we can talk more after the call. If you really want to get even stronger impact is that you cannot even say that and listen, I am about to (inaudible 43:53.6) it is going to be a limited time offer because I only have not much time, but I am sending this not only to you (inaudible 43:59.4) also to the competitors.

That really boost your authority because you are really doing this something big. He wants people to start talking loud. Jeremy is — he is launching his marketing campaign rather than just get it, okay, I mean it is a great idea, do not get me wrong. It is really much better idea than sending email, but if you really I mean, since you have already spent so much time you know, creating this marketing thing does not hurt to start. Also, send quick message or linkedin to anybody who might be working with them or to them just say, hey, listen, I will be sending you know largely my marketing campaign. I look forward to see how you — you make it casual and say, hey, (inaudible 44:41.8) to everybody listen, everybody is going to get and feel free to laugh at me or you know make it you know, make it so that we still (inaudible 44:51.1) you build that like and trust.

I mean you have already come out with somebody who is a bit daredevil. You said you will always love to try something new. Make sure they know you and then all of the sudden that is really personal because everybody is like I do not know what Jeremy is coming up with, but he is coming with something and we will see what it is and then most likely we (inaudible 45:11.0) Facebook or linkedin response you know, have fun with it and then you can talk business.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah I like that. I like the, I think that is very good advise because it is you know, it is kind of the same thing you know, a lot of times I used things like text messaging you know for like automated text messaging.

So for example you know, one of the things we do with webinars are — let us just say that the webinar starting at I do not know at 2:00. You can send people a text message or like 130 and then it is like, Hey, quick reminder, you know, the webinar starts in half hour and that boost response rate you know because you are kind of just getting their attention and it is a similar kind of concept with that. It is different but it is you know, it is kind of similar project. I like that. I actually —

Melinda Chen: Yeah, and then I mean mostly especially if you really have to (inaudible 46:02.4) with it, you probably get a couple (inaudible 46:05.3) of you trying to fit anyway. Did you see (inaudible 46:07.1). Hopefully, you get a couple of short messages back and say (inaudible 46:13.3) and people always love to have a little bit of humor, I hope, some (inaudible 46:18.1) and then yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and especially my clients, I have a lot of fun with my Mark. I mean I you know I go out drinking with a lot of them and so I really have a lot of fun with my clients and I have actually turned down clients because I did not like their personalities.

You know, —

Melinda Chen: No, I get it, I get it (inaudible 46:37.4) if you do not have the right vibe it is just never going to be a long lasting relationship.

Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. I like that and I can definitely because you know, a lot of them (inaudible 46:45.3) I am going to know their business is and that kind of thing so I can make it send them a really personal message even before they get it and then they are like what the hell is he going to send me now you know.

You know, I can even put it like if they have kids you know, something you know make sure you give it to your kids after you are done looking at (inaudible 46:59.9) or something like that.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, exactly I mean then they really build that expectation and they might be asking their receptionist for that package of, making sure that the reception does not just burn it by (inaudible 47:12.7) or something.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I should put that on the package, like do not open in front of your children, something like that.

That message may be interpreted in different ways and — but yeah so thanks for that. I hope everybody enjoyed — I did that not only because I am curious myself to see how would you take your concepts because the way you approach is totally different and I always like we are talking about before the call, I always like to take different concepts and different ways of doing business and they kind of meld in together you know and I think that is really hopefully everybody got a lot out of that me and you just kind of going back and forth and brainstorming on that. I know I got a lot out of it.

Melinda Chen: I have a lot of fun so, I mean I am going to try this you know, treasure chest thing not on my kids but on my clients.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It is a really, really good kind of fun way to get in touch, get in front of people you know, it definitely gets their attention you know what I mean.

Alright, so with that said, you know, is there anything else that I did not ask about you know, I feel like I let you down if I did not ask you a question you know, something that you want to make sure that people really understand you know before we hop off.

Melinda Chen: I think one thing is that there is — we are back to have this process is really for entrepreneurs and I think it is important to recognize that focus — a lot of times theory and what we could do is one thing, but really to have your daily habit and then creating the sales routine is a lot more important than how you want to approach it. I mean it is one thing to have one interesting marketing idea, but as you know, you are going to follow up and you are going to continue following up.

So I think that is a lot more important and challenging for entrepreneurs when we are managing so many things. Yeah, that is basically it and if people want to reach me, they can visit my website I do not just work with women, but I am a woman. Yeah, and they can also visit my Facebook page, Women Making Big Sales.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Yeah, and I will make sure all those links are in the show notes. So yeah, if anybody is interested in reaching out to Melinda you know, to get in touch, work with her you know, kind of you know, start a relationship, then you know, just kind of click if you are listening in your phone or whatever, just look through the show notes and they will be in there.

Yeah, that is it. Melinda, I really appreciate you coming on. It was a fantastic call. I know I learned a lot. I actually took a whole bunch of notes. If people heard me typing that is what I was doing. Yeah, I really appreciate it. I think it is a very — it is a very important topic because it is something that anybody and you know, most people listening to this should be doing and if you are not, I mean, you are — you know, I can tell you from personal experience you are missing out on a lot of money and also not even just you know, I know we have talked a lot about like the money aspect of this, but it is also stress to I mean — yeah, I mean I do not know if you have this experience, but I know like in my business the more money somebody pays me, the less of the hassle they are you know what I mean, because it is you know, a lot of people and you know, it make sense because like if you are really struggling for money and you give somebody whatever it is, a couple thousand dollars, whatever it is and that is a lot of money to you then you are going to be really nervous and anxious about it and that is you know, I mean it is totally normal, but if you are you know, if you are a bigger client if you, you know, if you are doing you know, $50M in sales and then you ask that person for whatever it is, a $10,000 sale or $20,000 even that you know, the difference between what you are asking and their you know how much cash flow they have available so much bigger that they do not — they trust you more you know and it is just you know, I have known in my business I mean the project show so much more (inaudible 51:32.3) you know what I mean.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, they did not know what they want and there is always very clear vision of how things need to be done instead of oh, I do not know, I am thinking of changing this, oh I might change this you know, I am going to — and then suddenly decided they are not going to work continue with this project and then you have that stress out, oh no now I have to look for another client.

So you constantly chasing that to small clients and again, paying advertising money to Facebook, Twitter, and linkedin and again, they obviously still very happy about this so.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you are making (inaudible 52:01.8)

Alright well hey, I really appreciate coming on. Everybody make sure that you go to again that link will be in the show notes and yeah, thanks again, we will hopefully see you soon.

Melinda Chen: Thank you Jeremy. Let me know how it goes, the treasure chest, bye.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I will, bye.

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